Stigma of Thanksgiving in frum world

ittsamother ↓

Wed, Nov 20 2024, 11:59 pm

ProudMommie wrote:

What a stupidity to change a Hebrew word that means nation to gentile..

Because the most common use of it on this site is the second, not the first. You can get around it by writing g-oy

Last edited by ittsamother on Wed, Nov 20 2024, 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

DrMom

Wed, Nov 20 2024, 11:59 pm

ProudMommie wrote:

It's not a jewish holiday.
We have no kesher with pilgrims/anti semites.
BH we have enough of our own holidays.
We should be busy with jewish life because we are [gentile] kadosh.

The original Pilgrims actually had great admiration for Judaism.

And their actions helped establish a country which took in millions of Jews and enabled them to thrive.

Seems pretty ungrateful to be so opposed to celebrating a holiday which achnowledges and gives thanks for their success.

kenz

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 1:11 am

Marathon wrote:

Thanksgiving is a pagan holiday
4th of July is just celebrating that we live in a land of chesed

This. It’s basic American history that Thanksgiving started off as a pagan holiday and many Rabbanim hold it’s problematic to “celebrate” on a day with those roots. Understandably Yidden are not doing it for those reasons but the issue is the source. I grew up in a school that did give off because most parents had off from work and it became a family day but they were always careful to make sure we knew we weren’t celebrating together with the non-Jews.

Molly Weasley ↓

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 1:37 am

Rav Moshe basically permits people who have a family "tradition" of celebrating Thanksgiving to have a family dinner and share a non-turkey meal together once every few years, for the sake of Shalom.

Rav Avigdor Miller says its completely forbidden, even without the turkey.

(A BBQ on July 4th is very different from having turkey on Thanksgiving. We have barbecues many times throughout the summer, whenever the weather is nice. We just happen to have one on July 4th as well.

Most people only eat turkey on Thanksgiving, and that's where the "Chukas HaGoy" part comes in..)

essie14

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 1:49 am

We live in Israel and we still celebrate Thanksgiving! (Friday night, though. Not Thursday) Very Happy

I make a turkey breast because it's hard to find whole turkey here. But we love the traditional foods. We do Thanksgiving themed shabbat a few times a year.

corolla

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 5:57 am

Molly Weasley wrote:

We are makpid NOT to have a BBQ on 4th of July Very Happy

Not saying that others shouldn't, but this is our minhag. There are 364 other days to do it.

Iymnok

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 6:02 am

We always had a Thanksgiving dinner for my grandma.
After she died we would have the turkey, which was on a great sale, Friday night. Since we had days off, we'd sometimes go to out cousins, a 3-4 hr drive.
We'd have pumpkin pie throughout the fall since it's yummy!

shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 6:22 am

giftedmom wrote:

The earliest American synagogues unfortunately didn’t leave much Frum or even Jewish descendants. Those who came after the war did things differently and look at us now.

Think this if you want, but you are revising history. Of course there were frum jews in america before ww2.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 6:26 am

PinkFridge wrote:

It's a great time for non-FFBs to get together with and host their families. (Not a stirah to my immediate PP.)

And many frum from birth families do the same.
It was literally an excuse to gst together with family. Thats all. With a nice festive meal.

And I always LOVED the parade.

bookstore15 ↓

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 8:24 am

Little history lesson- the first Thanksgiving, as a legal holiday, was put forth by George Washington as a day to thank God for our success, independence, and plenty.
Quite specifically to thank God. It was not pagan.
It was later codified to be a Thursday in November by Abraham Lincoln.
The Pilgrim connection was only made later, before the civil war, pointing out a similarity to their harvest feast.
It's been a while since I read up on it, so I could be wrong. Please correct me if I am!
I believe Rav avigdor miller was strongly against it, and Rav Moshe discussed it as well.

↑ bookstore15

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 8:28 am

mother51 wrote:

recognizing independence in a country that isn’t ours vs sitting down and giving thanks to the ppl around you. Very different.
I also never understood why ppl can celebrate 4th of July but not Yom. Haatsmaut but that’s a whole another discussion

I celebrate the fourth of July just as much as I celebrate Yom haatzmaut- by not saying hallel or doing anything differently.
The only difference is in America, I get off for July 4.

puzzle ↓

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 8:29 am

mother51 wrote:

But in the frum world it’s very common to have a bbq on Labor Day/ Memorial Day/ Presidents’ Day but then the second my kid mentions in class about having a turkey for Thanksgiving he’s told it’s avodah zarah

Who told him it's avoda zara? Another kid? No one who knows what they're talking about says it's avoda zara even if they think it's assur to celebrate. If anything it would be chukas hagoyim.

kneidelmeidel

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 8:31 am

From R’ Berkowitz:

Thanksgiving is a שאלה – America is a very interesting country – it’s very religious, their values are essentially those of the founding fathers who were very religious, at the same time it’s very liberal. They say that thanksgiving is the day that the founding fathers celebrated the first successful harvest, and therefore it’s the time of year to thank whoever you believe in. It’s a מחלוקת.

Elfrida

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 8:46 am

bookstore15 wrote:

It's hard for me to understand why a pagan festival would have been codified only in American culture. Pagan traditions were widespread across many nations, and have been adopted and reinterpreted by many religions. In their new forms, they are widely celebrated.

So when European settlers came to America, why would they discover a brand new pagan festival that no one else has ever heard of? When I tried looking it up, I couldn't find any specific source, but did find comments about the similarity to harvest celebrations across the world.

Not sure that's really pagan.
By the way, I'm not American, didn't grow up with Thanksgiving, and have nonintention of starting to celebrate it now. Just an academic interest, mostly sparked by this site.

bernadette

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 8:47 am

giftedmom wrote:

The earliest American synagogues unfortunately didn’t leave much Frum or even Jewish descendants. Those who came after the war did things differently and look at us now.

Excuse me? There always have been frum life in the USA before the war. And I write that as a grandchild of holocaust survivors. Please get your head out of the sand!

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Nov 21 2024, 9:00 am

There are a few things being conflated here: Any American Jewish life before the war, and early American Jewish life. Sadly, I don't know what peiros people who were here pre-Civil War and even a little later had.
And we know about the attrition even later. In Europe too but especially in the US.
Even so, there was definitely vibrant Jewish life in the US before the war. It wasn't easy, though. The main battleground was Shabbos. By the time the survivors came, that battle still existed but things were much easier.