Kids' stuff: ownership and sharing

keym ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 8:18 pm

For regular games, books, toys, I institute a 6 month policy. After that it becomes the family's.
Mainly because I had 10 year olds refusing to let their 4 year old sibling play with a 4 year old toy because "it's mine, I got it for Chanukah".
However, anything that a child deems valuable gets put in their box and no one is allowed to touch without permission.
And any special stuff- electronics, bikes, skates, scooters type of thing are theirs and need to be asked permission.

I try to specify when I give a child something if it's special for them, if it's for the family, or if it's for the family use but they get first dibs.

amother

Emerald ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 9:05 pm

My oldest is 5 so we're not really in that realm yet as far as bday gifts, Chanukah presents, etc, because for the most part any gift they got was more like a toy or book that everyone enjoys playing and it just goes directly into the playroom after they got it. But we might just hit it soon because my oldest has been requesting a very specific present and will be very excited when they get it and is definitely going to view it as theirs.

But in general, my view is very much that kids should get to feel that they get to own things. If it's theirs, no one else should get to use it without their permission and then turn to them and say 'well, Mommy said I could' cuz then yes, they never get to feel their item is truly theirs.

amother

↑ Emerald ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 9:55 pm

I remember as a young teen I used most of the money I had earned one summer to buy a digital camera for the first time. I was so excited with that camera, I had worked so hard for it. I dreamed that my mother gave my brother permission to use it, and I woke up so furious over that, with nowhere to put that anger cuz it never actually happened, my mother would never have given someone else permission to touch my personal possessions. But to this day I can remember how upset I was when I woke up!

amother

↑ Emerald ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 5:59 am

amother Pear wrote:

When they don't want to share I respect that but I also remind them that they can't insist or get upset when they want to use their siblings items and they don't want to share.

Yeah definitely a very valid point. I agree they should not be forced to share but they will come to understand that no one will be forced to share with them either.

If it's a personal item of theirs (a prize from their Morah, a toy they came home with from a birthday pekelah) I don't make them share it ever if they don't want to, though I do remind them gently that they really liked when their sibling shared THEIR toy with them earlier. But if it's a family item, then I still don't make them share it as soon as another child wants it, I'll tell them they can still have their turn but remember someone else is waiting excitedly for their turn. That's usually enough to remind them to give a turn soon, if they still don't I'll set a timer for when they need to hand it over for the next turn.

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 6:43 am

Any item that personally belongs to someone in our house needs verbal permission to use it. This includes gifts or items individual purchased with their own money. Camera scooter game boy bike etc.
Sefarem on public book case can get used by others without asking but it is nice to ask first when possible.
I do not ever ask a child to share a large ticket item with their siblings when they choose to on their own that's fine. Smaller things books chachkis-I will announce in a loud voice when someone is asking to use it that it is new to their sibling and they are not ready to share when and if they are they will. As we know sharing is the way of gedoyem.
...we do have one teen who doesn't respect others belongings and takes socks undershirts gloves scarf and even helmet without permission and it is a big issue and really upsets siblings when they don't have their items

amother

Snowdrop

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 7:30 am

I think there's different categories. There's family items which belong to the family and can be used by any family member. This is most books, toys and other general household items.
Stuff that a child saved up for and bought with their own money, is totally theirs and I think the same applies for birthday gifts that were for that child. And I would ask the child permission if another child wants to use it.
Children are people too and deserve to be treated with respect.

↑ keym ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 7:43 am

The thing is like I said earlier, even books, toys, games that were given as birthday presents, eventually become community owned

I mean the Monopoly game in my closet was given to my 17 year old by his grandmother for Chanukah when he was 8. Should I insist that my now 8 year old call him up in yeshiva to get permission to play with it? The same thing that our box of Duplo Lego was given to that same 17 year old when he was 4.
Does the ownership expire?

amother

Catmint

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 7:47 am

At one point my older boys constantly took away a toy that their younger sibling was playing with because it was their upsherin present! I had to implement a statute of limitations for small ticket items.
Bigger or more personal items are kept in their rooms or put away after each use. They are not allowed to use one another's without permission from the owner. They ask me and I direct them to ask their sibling. I find that they share easier when their sibling shares with them back AND their items are dealt with respectfully.

bigsis144

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 7:59 am

amother Cadetblue wrote:

Once they age out it becomes a public item. But also why ownership should have normal limits. It’s insane for a 17 year old to not let his 2 year old bother have the duplo sets he got as a toddler.

My HFA 15 year old is like this, he has Lego sets he got when he was 9-10 gathering dust on a shelf in his room because he rigidly refuses to let those pieces enter the communal Lego pool. It’s not like they are “display” sets or he plays with them himself.

His siblings are frustrated and I’m frustrated too - it’s probably a few hundred dollars worth of Lego just gathering dust.

But I know how angry and betrayed DS15 will be if I just take them as a parental decree.

It’s hard.

ittsamother ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 8:32 am

amother Cadetblue wrote:

Once they age out it becomes a public item. But also why ownership should have normal limits. It’s insane for a 17 year old to not let his 2 year old bother have the duplo sets he got as a toddler.

Honestly though why. They should be asked if they can give over their item to the family since they never really play with it, it's too young for them, and if they agree to then from then on it's no longer theirs, it's everyone's. But I don't think things should automatically move out of someone's possession simply cuz they got it a while ago. Can you imagine if my sister came to my house and helped herself to something from my closet because I bought it 12 years ago and it doesn't fit me? I should probably just give it to her in the first place but if I didn't, does she have a right to claim it "for the family" simply cuz I have it for a long time and it's no longer suitable to my age and stage? (If your 17 yr old son is holding on to the duplo and cares about his toddler brother playing with it I'd honestly feel there's more to this because most 17 yr olds simply wouldn't care about some old duplo... Expensive Lego sets are another story and if a kid wants to hold on to it I'd let him, it's not being wasted, it doesn't expire, maybe he wants to save it for his own kids someday or something.)

Really, the best path should be that when gifts are given to a little kid, it's kind of like when they present a book to the class in celebration of their birthday- it's not their book, it's the class' book, even if it was for their birthday. "This toy is being bought for the family in honor of Chana's 3rd birthday, Chana will get to play with it first and as much as she wants for the next while but it's really for the family and will go in the playroom for everyone." Something like that would solve the problem for younger ages. Once they're a little older and genuinely care about the item they were given, then I don't think it should ever automatically become family property.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 8:36 am

bigsis144 wrote:

The siblings shouldn't feel frustrated. It was never theirs or the family's, and if just having it on his shelf makes him happy, they're his to use as he wants and this is how he wants to use it. The same way they shouldn't feel frustrated if he takes some of his own money and buys a danish and then doesn't eat it til it gets stale and has to be thrown out- it's none of their business if that's what he chose to do with his danish since it was never theirs to have an opinion on. It may seem wasteful to do that with a danish but it's his item to be wasteful with.

amother

↑ Cadetblue ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 8:37 am

I think it just goes back to how much value you place in materialism. Sure it’s valuable when it’s new and when it’s being used often. But other than special needs kids which is totally different, a kid shouldn’t be so attached to objects once they aren’t using it as much. And if they are I’d be concerned about self esteem and general middos.

amother

↑ Emerald

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 8:44 am

As a random example, there was a toy given to me on my birthday when I was just a little kid. It was absolutely family property all the years, all the children played with it and all the grandchildren, it was never viewed as "my" toy. However, I still always had a bit of an attachment to it and so when my parents were moving and downsizing, I asked that when they choose to give it away, they should please give it to me. And they did, and my kids enjoy playing with it. I would have been more than happy for it to stay with them for as many more years as they wanted! But I kind of felt that if they were going to give it away to anyone, why not me as it was originally given to me. On the flip side, there were many other items given to me as a kid that I did not retain any connection to and I have no idea who they were given to, nor do I care... It did feel nice that in this instance where I felt a connection, they respected it.

JasmineDragon ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 9:11 am

I don't see why an item that belongs to a child (if it's a family item that's different) would ever stop belonging to them without them agreeing that they're done with it. If you want to buy duplos for your children and anyone who wants gets to play with them, no problem. If you say "these are this child's duplos", then they're his until he says otherwise. And if older children are regularly taking a toy away from a younger one, maybe it should be kept in the older child's room. If he remembers it's from his upsherin it's obviously important to him, so don't give it to the toddler.

I recently asked my parents for a children's book that I remember from my childhood and would like for my child now. It was my younger brother's book, really. He's in his 20s now and still wants it. So it's his, and I'll buy a different copy. I don't get to take it away just because he's "too old for it" and I've got a young child.

↑ JasmineDragon ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 9:13 am

amother Cadetblue wrote:

I wouldn't call it materialism. It's an emotional attachment, nothing to do with the value of the toy itself.