Do Haredim in Israel wear lace top wigs?

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 9:30 am

amother DarkGray wrote:

I'm a bit puzzled. The letter H is often ( yet not always) used as a transliteration of the letter ח. Why would it be disrespectful? Just because it is written that way does not mean it is pronounced that way.

Really? Now I'm puzzled. The only instance that I can think of where ח is routinely transliterated as H is in blatantly secular spellings of Hanuka. I think anyone familiar with Hebrew would agree that an H at the beginning of חנוכה is not how the word is pronounced in Hebrew. חרדי isn't pronounced with a soft H, either.

I'm not sure why the poster above said it was less respectful, but when I see it here, it does strike me as very inaccurate.

amother

↑ DarkGray ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 9:37 am

Elfrida wrote:

I don't know, all I can say is that I've seen it often enough. In fact I know someone who grew up very chareidi and spells her name Haya as opposed to Chaya. Honestly, I never really thought about it before and you may be right that ch is more accurate (although I'm not sure who decided that davka ch is a substitute for ח), but I still can't fathom why anyone would consider it disrespectful.

amother

↑ DarkGray

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 9:41 am

Molly Weasley wrote:

It's disrespectful because often, when it's worded like that, it's followed by criticism of our community.

Could be. I honestly never noticed. I do agree the h is probably more likely to be used by non- chareidi people (with some exceptions, see my example above) but I have never noticed that it is necessarily associated with criticism.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 9:44 am

heidi wrote:

I honestly don't even relate to the answers here. Have you been to Bnei Brak recently. Their everyday shaitels are lace- and to a wedding? Couldn't find a skin top in the room. Same in Har Nof and RBS

Modern chareidim probably. Standard chareidi with a dumb phone and shorter sheitel is not wearing lace tops

amother

↑ OP

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 9:52 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

It's much more respectful and within social norms to say "Chareidim" and not "Hareidim".
I've seen plenty of lace tops among the American and European and Israeli Chareidi Lite crowd

What is the difference?

amother

Pear ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 1:25 pm

amother DarkGray wrote:

The guttural sound isn’t in the English language which is why people who speak English only often can’t make the sound. I’ve seen people use kh, h, and of course ch, but out of all the options I think ch is actually the most inaccurate. Ch is assigned a particular sound. Chair, chin etc. it isn’t guttural at all.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 1:34 pm

Real mainstream chareidim don't have smartphones, have filtered internet, wear socks, no tight clothing, shorter sheitels, only eat the top heschers, men wear only white shirts and hat and jacket during the week.

Boys have no secular education, men sit in front on busses and women behind, don't go to college, even religious seperate ones, don't watch, read, or listen to secular media. They don't go to city events or matnas events unless they are run by chareidim.

Only go to seperate beaches that are approved by the rabbanim, most won't shop in chains that are open on shabbos
....

Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 2:23 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Are there any chain stores that are open on Shabbos? I can't think of any. Superpharm is allowed to be open on Shabbos as it's a pharmacy.
Busses: Not that strict IMHO. If the bus is packed (and they usually are) you can find men who are stuck in the back and women who had no other choice than to step up in the front.
If there is ample space then your description applies.

gr82no

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 2:40 pm

amother DarkGray wrote:

The french way of spelling the ches is with an h haya, hana, menouha.
Spanish speaking countries with a j
But English speaking countries with a ch unless secular. And only by hanuka, hasidem, hareidi

amother

Amethyst

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 2:54 pm

I was surprised that my daughter's teacher in an Israeli chareidi BY had a lace front (I didn't look closer to see if it was lace top). The teachers all have wigs around shoulder length. I think it has become more accepted than when it first came out.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 3:09 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Most chains have stores open on shabbos in the few malls that are open. Kiwi, fox etc. In Beit Shemesh the opened a new mall recently and the rabbanim and chareidim ensured no such chains coukd have stores there.

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 3:33 pm

amother Pear wrote:

In modern English/American ch is assigned a specific sound, but traditionally it could be used in a much wider way. The Scottish term Loch (sea lake) has the ch at the end pronounced exactly as though it was written with a ח. (Unfortunately is has been modernised into sounding more like lock.) I think this guttural sound used to be much more common.

Rabbit613

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 3:43 pm

I wear a lace top. I am chareidi. My husband wears a white shirt and my boys are in cheider. I am American and therefore not mainstream chareidi. It is however becoming common even within the Israeli chareidi community.

Wolfsbane ↓

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 3:51 pm

Elfrida wrote:

But as you pointed out, loch is a Scottish word and doesn't demonstrate English spelling norms. We're used to using "ch" to indicate the ח/כ sound, but I would guess it's actually something we borrowed from German. And by "we" I mean Jews, because as amother Pear pointed out, English (or at least American English) usually uses kh or just h to transliterate the guttural sound. In academia, the convention when transliterating Hebrew is to use h with a dot underneath to indicate ח and kh to indicate כ. I'd be curious if ch was at any point used to form the ח sound in English, but if so I would guess not in centuries.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 4:06 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

It's much more respectful and within social norms to say "Chareidim" and not "Hareidim".
I've seen plenty of lace tops among the American and European and Israeli Chareidi Lite crowd

Please explain whose social norms? The word חרדי is a hebrew word. In english or other languages, that sound, the chet sound, is either written with a ch or with an h or with a kh.
There is no disrespect meant at all. Can you enlighten us about this? Are you in Israel?

amother

Oleander

Wed, Nov 13 2024, 4:19 pm

I have no idea how to quote other responders but to the person upthread making sweeping statements about "real chareidim", much of which I disagree with, here is one important point: Please be very careful and do not post assumption as fact. Kiwi is actually a franchise with independently-owned branches and many of their stores are shomer Shabbos, including the Beit Shemesh branch.