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Forum
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-> Simcha Section
amother
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 Wed, Nov 06 2024, 9:54 am
In my 40s, never really got it. Can you break it down for me? Who dances with who? At what point? How do I know if I need to dance with the kalla and how do I make it happen? What do I say while dancing and when does it end? How do people know they're next in turn? Who else are you supposed to dance with? What are the breakaway circles about?
As an aside, the people who seem to know all the rules, how is that? Is it intuitive or did someone teach them? Or is everyone just pretending they know what they're doing?
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amother
Fuchsia
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 10:06 am
I love this! Maybe we'll all finally know! 
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amother
Caramel
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 10:15 am
I definitely pretend. I cannot dance and am terrible at rhythm. I kind of do a follow along step similar to everyone else. I will usually dance some of the time at the beginning and then again for a short time. Otherwise I will stand next to the circle and talk to the like-minded people who also don't enjoy dancing or can't dance.
The kallah will usually dance with mother and mil, then come siblings. Grandmothers and other close family can then get included, and then I think it rotates through the kallah's friends. Then I think it's whoever the kallah sees and wants to dance with next, or you can just jump in. Most people will dance for a short time, give a short brocha to the kallah and then move away when someone else comes forwards or the kallah moves towards.
I don't think there's any real hard rules.
Breakaway dances usually happen when there's a group of usually the kallah's friends who think the dancing is too slow and they want to do something faster.
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Hello99
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 10:16 am
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When the kallah comes in she'll usually dance with her mother, mil, bubby, siblings, in laws first. Usually in that order. After that she either dances with her aunts and cousins or her friends. Once the kallah has danced with all the people in my first list basically anyone can go up to her and dance with her
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amother
Impatiens
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 10:18 am
| amother OP wrote: | In my 40s, never really got it. Can you break it down for me? Who dances with who? At what point? How do I know if I need to dance with the kalla and how do I make it happen? What do I say while dancing and when does it end? How do people know they're next in turn? Who else are you supposed to dance with? What are the breakaway circles about?
As an aside, the people who seem to know all the rules, how is that? Is it intuitive or did someone teach them? Or is everyone just pretending they know what they're doing? |
Who dances with who?
Family first. Right when circle starts kallah's mom should be right there and she dances first with her. Next goes MIL. Then depends if there's grandmothers they go next. Generally kallahs GM's first and then GM from chosson side. Then her sisters and SILs (married to her bro) one by one (according to age maybe or whoever runs in fist?). And often I see that if there are a few sisters, they all join together after she's done dancing with the youngest. Then chossons sisters and SIL if there are. Same way as her sisters. Then it seems like its not exact order but usually it's her aunts, then his aunts. Also great aunts or other "older" relatives should be danced with now even if they're not so close. Not respectful to make them wait while she dances with younger relatives. After the older generation of relatives (meaning her Grandparents and parents ages) she dances with cousins. One by one and usually organically it becomes a group and her sisters come back to join ... This relative thing might take a while lol..depending on size of family.
Theres still one big circle at this point.
GTG To be continued..
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amother
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 10:19 am
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I'm asking in all seriousness because I'm so sick of feeling lost when everyone just knows what to do. I miss a lot of social cues in general and it's embarrassing to have to look to my much younger relatives and copycat. Everyone seems to know exactly what to do.
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amother
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 10:20 am
| amother OP wrote: | | In my 40s, never really got it. Can you break it down for me? Who dances with who? At what point? How do I know if I need to dance with the kalla and how do I make it happen? What do I say while dancing and when does it end? How do people know they're next in turn? Who else are you supposed to dance with? What are the breakaway circles about? |
If you are in your 40s you are probably coming as a friend of the parent or a relative. Iny experience only those there for kallah herself or close relative like first cousin dance w kallah.
Aunt/ first cousin of kallah dance w kallah, usually first dance.
Mother of kallahs best friend, very close neighbor - dance second dance (probably)
Kallahs boss or coworker. Second dance.
Others who are there for connection to kallah herself- second dance.
Everyone else who is there for someobe other than the kallah - When that person makes own circle you go there and dance individually with mother.
If I am there for kallah, I know my "status" and wait until shes up to those people to dance. Like, if im an aunt, I know my age order in family. If im a cousin (im not close right, shes the age of my kids!) I let her dance with my mother for a minute then join w sisters and mother.
If im her boss, I come second dance and either she reaches out to me or when time seems right (im ready to leave, she seems done w her closest friends) I make contact and step forward as she finishes with someone else and is in my direction. Same if im a close neighbor. If shes dd's bestie, I join after she dances w dd for a min.
Do the same if Im in the mother breakaway circle. If this is my neice I may go back and forth betwen kallah circle and mother, will go dance in circle of cousins around MY mother, or back in the day my grandmother, when it gets active.
You say mazal tov and give a bracha.
Maybe receive one from baalei simcha. Of course you cant hear! Dance for a 30 seconds, squeeze hands big smile and mazal tov, break away back to circle. If youre close you can give a hug!
I follow whatever steps the person is doing.
If theres not a lot of pple with kallah ill go to her circle and also try to dance, but typically shes busy w her people so I only try if I have my own close connection. Like my friends dd who is friends w my dd too - im not going to take up her time.
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amother
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 10:21 am
| amother Dandelion wrote: | If you are in your 40s you are probably coming as a friend of the parent or a relative. I would so only those there for jallah herself or close relative like first cousin dance w kallah.
Aunt/ first cousin of kallah dance w kallah, usually first dance.
Mother of kallahs best friend, very close neighbor - dance second dance (probably)
Kallahs boss or coworker. Second dance.
Others who are there for connection to kallah herself- second dance.
Everyone else who is there for someobe other than the kallah - When that person makes own circle you go there and dance individually with mother.
If I am there for kallah, I know my "status" and wait until shes up to those people to dance. Like, if im an aunt, I know my age order in family. If im a cousin (im not close right, shes the age of my kids!) I let her dance with my mother for a minute then join w sisters and mother.
If im her boss, I come second dance and either she reaches out to me or when time seems right (im ready to go, she seems done w her closest friends) I make contact and step forward as she finishes with someone else and is in my direction. Same if im a close neighbor. If shes dd's bestie, I join after she dances w dd for a min.
Do the same if Im in the mother breakaway circle. If this is my neice I may go back and forth betwen kallah circle and mother, will go dance in circle of cousins around MY mother, or back in the day my grandmother, when it gets active.
You say mazal tov and give a bracha.
Maybe receive one from baalei simcha. Of course you cant hear! Dance for a 30 seconds, squeeze hands big smile and mazal tov, break away back to circle. If youre close you can give a hug!
I follow whatever steps the person is doing.
If theres not a lot of pple with kallah ill go to her circle and also try to dance, but typically shes busy w her people so I only try if I have my own close connection. Like my friends dd who is friends w my dd too - im not going to take up her time. | Sometimes also a the kallah herself is a work colleague or neighbor or babysitter or other acquaintance.
EtA I see you addressed this. Thank you!!
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amother
Bottlebrush
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 10:22 am
| amother OP wrote: | In my 40s, never really got it. Can you break it down for me? Who dances with who? At what point? How do I know if I need to dance with the kalla and how do I make it happen? What do I say while dancing and when does it end? How do people know they're next in turn? Who else are you supposed to dance with? What are the breakaway circles about?
As an aside, the people who seem to know all the rules, how is that? Is it intuitive or did someone teach them? Or is everyone just pretending they know what they're doing? |
Great questions! I can't tackle all but lets see how much typing I'm in the mood of.
I'm answering from a Lakewood perspective here.
After the soup course, music will start building up
Kallah's friends will get arches and will start dancing with them by entrance
the chosson and kallah are introduced with much fanfare
Kallah (and in less yeshivish circle, chosson too) runs through the arches
(I know that's not really answering your question yet, but my brain needs this to be organized)
Kallah runs straight to her mother's arms, dances with her, poses for a picture, hugs
Kallah does that next with her mother in law
next are kallah's grandmothers
next are chossons grandmothers
next may be the great aunts, or very choshuve guests like a rebbetzin
next are kallah's sisters and sisters-in-law, in age order. Usually neices will run in after a minute when their mother is dancing with kallah.
Next is chosson's sisters and sisters-in-law, same thing with neices.
next are kallah's aunts, usually in age order, doesn't really matter which side first (kallah's aunts from mother or from father)
Sometimes cousins will run in as their mother dances with the kallah.
Otherwise cousins dance now.
All other older relatives dance with her.
Sometimes kallah's close friends will start doing first dance, sometimes if its a big family or short first dance, they don't finish with the family first dance.
Then is second dance- all her friends, first her best friends. Each group will dance with her kind of seperately- one big outer circle, one inner circle with her high school friends for example while she dances one at a time with them.
Usually there is some shtick also.
During second dance, the kallah and chosson's mother will usually have their own circles with their friends and acquantainces- they don't dance in the kallah's circle. If anyone other than kallah's peers didn't dance with her first dance, they'll join the kallah's circle for a few minutes and wait for a chance to dance with her.
Obvs, THESE ARE NOT RULES, just a GENERAL idea of a standard wedding.
I learned this from going to dozens and dozens of weddings- aunts, uncles, cousins, seminary friends, high school friends, camp friends, neighbors... etc.
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amother
Tangerine
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 10:23 am
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I was the kallah that had no clue and when my friends pulled me on before my mother I danced with them and stopped as soon as my mother broke in. Still embarrassed thinking about it. Wish someone told me this!
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amother
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 3:37 pm
Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to write it all down. Very helpful.
Question: let's say I'm the kallahs colleague and want to dance with her in the second dance. Do I literally watch her intently the entire time and wait for the exact moment when she's leaving go of someone to grab her hands? I've had experiences where I ended up awkwardly in the middle of the circle but she took someone else.
Another q: when do second cousins dance if at all?
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amother
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 4:56 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to write it all down. Very helpful.
Question: let's say I'm the kallahs colleague and want to dance with her in the second dance. Do I literally watch her intently the entire time and wait for the exact moment when she's leaving go of someone to grab her hands? I've had experiences where I ended up awkwardly in the middle of the circle but she took someone else.
Another q: when do second cousins dance if at all? |
Yeah, this is an art and sometimes youre left empty. No worries. Step back in the circle and wait for another opportunity. Nobody noticed except you.
I usually wait until shes facing my general direction emptyhanded (might take a few pple) and I try to make eye contact then step forward. And yes, when you're at the point that you want to dance you need to pay attention to opportunities.
As a second cousin do you have a personal relationship to the kallah? (Like maybe your mothers were close so youre close). If you do, you can dance with kallah at end of the first dance. Or during second.
If youre there for your great grandmother or to say mazal tov to her grandmother (your great aunt) and barely know the girl (or youre chosson side) I would not dance w kallah, but yes with the mother and grandmother and your shared great grandmother.
This assumes a busy robust kallah circle where she barely has time for anyone.
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ra_mom
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 5:25 pm
The first round of dancing, from when the kallah comes running in, until the music ends (yes, it starts back up again afterwords), is reserved for family.
The first few dances are reserved for the kallah to dance with in this order, as follows:
Her mom
His mom
Her grandmother
Her 2nd grandmother
His grandmother
His 2nd grandmother
Her sisters and SILs, oldest first and in order of age
His sisters and SILs, in order of age
Then not necessarily in order, the aunts- and as each aunt finishes up with the kallah, she pulls in her daughters and daughters-in-law to dance together with the kallah in one circle- and often each dd and ddil gets a chance one on one, all in the same round, with the rest of them still around them.
I learned this by watching.
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amother
Poppy
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 5:31 pm
Please, no making fun of me, okay?
BH, I am a very geshikte mamele, but dancing is not one of my attributes. So as to not make a fool of thyself, I hire a dancing teacher before every one of my kids' chassunahs to teach me the moves and etiquette and as soon as she leaves, I forget everything...
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amother
Heather
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 5:39 pm
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Just adding that I’ve heard that if you partake in the meal/ food of a wedding you should be mesameach the kallah, so even if I’m there for the parents I always make sure to wish the kallah mazel tov!
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amother
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 6:13 pm
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Thank you again everyone, I really learned a lot right here.
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flowerpower
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 6:20 pm
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Any more questions? I’ve been to many many many weddings kah so I know basically what goes on
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amother
Hunter
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 6:25 pm
Side thing to remember - simchas chason vkallah is a mitzvah.
The mitzvah is to make the kallah happy not yourself. If the kallah is busy with friends and you’re the moms friend - no reason to stop her to dance with you - if the kallah is standing with no one to dance with - even if you don’t know her very well - please go in and dance!
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ittsamother
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 6:36 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to write it all down. Very helpful.
Question: let's say I'm the kallahs colleague and want to dance with her in the second dance. Do I literally watch her intently the entire time and wait for the exact moment when she's leaving go of someone to grab her hands? I've had experiences where I ended up awkwardly in the middle of the circle but she took someone else.
Another q: when do second cousins dance if at all? |
To add to the previous answer to this question- yes, you watch for a good opportunity and sometimes you have to be a bit aggressive to jump in and grab it. Sure, sometimes you will end up missing your chance and just standing there in the middle. Smile graciously and quickly back up into the inner circle and try again. Everyone else is not judging you because we've all been there and it's happened to all of us, it's just the nature of it. I always try to smile encouragingly at someone who I witnessed going through this if they look in my direction, so they know I'm rooting for them, not judging them. Whenever I felt awkward when it happened to me, I learned to tell myself, "it's ok, I'll try again, no one really cares or will remember this happened, it happens multiple times at every wedding."
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oohlala
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Wed, Nov 06 2024, 6:42 pm
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These “rules” are for the us but other countries may be different. My cousin came to the us from Israel for my nieces wedding. She commented on how respectful everyone is and the friends don’t dance with the kallah until the family members do. I was surprised she hadn’t seen this before… she mentioned that this is not the custom in Israel and it’s a huge balagan.
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