Would you let dd change school?

amother

OP ↓

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 12:20 am

DD 12 has always been rather intoverted and had some difficulties connecting to other girls. She's also always hated going to school, from kita aleph onwards.
She started this year at a new school, an ulpenah, and she's in a small class for children with learning difficulties. For frame of reference, we are DL in Israel, but my question is in general.
The school she's in was chosen by dh and me based on our hashkafa and based on talks to other parents and internet research. It seemed a good fit to us, the right measure of frum and academically good. One of dd's friends from the previous school also is there.
However, dd's best friends are going to two different schools since this year.
DD wants to join one of those which also has a class for learning difficulties, which her best friend is in. That school is too far to the left for our taste, it is what in Israel is called dati-lite. Barely frum. It also doesn't have good academic ratings.
DD is crying, saying she doesn't want to live any more, and yesterday she ran away from school in the middle of the day and took a bus home. She's extremely unhappy in her present school, it has been going on for a while and it is getting worse. She absolutely wants to switch.

Should I try to switch her? Should I put her happiness above all other considerations? But the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Imho there is no guarantee the other school will be the paradise that DD imagines. Also, she struggles with frumkeit already and I fear that school would push her closer to opting out of frum life.
On the other hand, her current school just breeds resentment in her. She doesn't learn and refuses to take part in davening there.

And yes, she is starting therapy, but that's not going to magically solve the school problems, either.

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 1:57 am

I'm so sorry.
If she's only been there this year, how can it have been going on for a while?
What do the school have to say? What's going on in school?
This isn't happening in a vacuum and like you say, switching won't solve the problem.
Can you ask for a meeting with the school and try and get a clearer picture of what's going on?

Goldie613 ↓

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 2:03 am

I think it's two separate questions here -

Question 1 = Should she switch to a different school?
Question 2 = Should she switch to that particular school?

I see no harm in letting her switch to another school - I've always felt like schools and students are almost like shidduch dating, it's either a good fit or it's not. So if this isn't, and you've done whatever is reasonably possible to make things work, it may very well be time to move on.

As for the question of that particular school, it could be that is not going to work for your hashkafa. Is your daughter mature enough to understand the idea that different people hold different ways, and that if she goes to that school she may be one of the few kids that hold as your family does, which may mean that she won't be able to do the things some of her new friends do or go to some of the places they go? Or that she may be viewed as the "different" (ok, not like them) kid, with the social issues that may bring? On the other hand, you may want to check with your Rav or other parents who have gone there - some schools are technically one hashkafa but the families there may be a mix of different types, which may work for you. So much depends on your daughter's personality! Will she be ok with only going to one or two kids houses? Will she feel left out if they are going places you won't allow, or will it bring fights between you and her on a weekly basis as she tries to blend in with her new classmates?

I'm sorry if I'm giving you more questions instead of the answers you are seeking, but I hope this helps at least a little bit.

amother

Chestnut

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 2:43 am

When our son was in 9th grade he was on the verge of getting kicked out of his ממ"ד school and his frum therapist told us that our first priority should be his mental health and his happiness.
We switched him to a less religious school and he was so much happier.

Other issues aside, keeping your DD in a more religious school is not going to keep her at your level of frumkeit no matter what.
The more religious schools in our area have a huge rate of graduates who are completely not frum after HS.

amother

Myrtle

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 3:14 am

I'm so sorry this sounds so difficult.
Are there no other options for schools? It sounds like her current school isn't working for her, but you don't align with the hashkafa of the school she wants. It sounds like she only wants to go there because her best friend is there? What about the other school with her other best friend, is that one a better option? Maybe she'd be happier in a different school that still aligns with your hashkafos, even if she doesn't know anyone there yet. What doesn't she like about her current school?

amother

↑ OP

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 3:44 am

Well, thanks to all for the input. I think what drives her is mainly the desire to be with her best friend. The fact that the school is more to the left seems to be an additional bonus in her eyes - as in, goodbye dress code, largely.
Switching her to a completely different school might not help her - she keeps complaining that in her current school she doesn't know anyone. Minus of course the sort of friend from her old school who's in her class. But she's not open to becoming friends with the other girls there. She keeps saying odd judgmental things, like that they look ugly, have double chins, talk too loudly, are not nice to each other, put their pencil case on her desk, use a pen that smells strange to write etc. I tried to find out if she's being bullied, but she denies it strongly. Only insists she hates the other girls and they are all weirdos, she can't stand that one has diabetes, another one is adopted etc.
Of course no one can guarantee that a different school won't be full of weirdos by her definition of the word.

I'm a bit worried because she literally expresses hatred of the other girls and invents colorful insults to say to them, while at the same time denying that they actually did anything to her. Things like telling the adopted girl that she's so ugly that her real parents threw her in the bin. She didn't actually say that to the girl, but told me she wants to say it. Of course I try to tell her not to be like that, but that doesn't reduce her hatred.

amother

DarkGreen

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 4:10 am

She does sound like she needs therapy to understand why she thinks these thoughts about other kids. I would suggest she commits to x amount of time in therapy (3 months?) and then you can have a more mature discussion about what the best school for her would be with input from her therapist. Keep in mind that at this age friends can change very quickly and her best friend might just dump her in a new school especially if there's a cooler crowd she wants to hang out with

↑ seeker

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 5:03 am

Just a thought (and it sounds like there is more going on here with the general unhappiness) but I have seen some times when a child was embarrassed or in other ways upset about being in the special class, they hated on their classmates. I think it was partly to distance themselves (this is the loser class but I'm not like them) and partly because they were transferring their feelings at the kids rather than just the situation.

Elfrida

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 8:55 am

Quote:

The school she's in was chosen by dh and me based on our hashkafa and based on talks to other parents and internet research. It seemed a good fit to us, the right measure of frum and academically good.

If your two criteria were matching hashkafa and good academics, how are they playing out?

Your daughter seems to be rejecting their hashkafa, and any religious obligations that go along with it. Anything could happen between now and her turning eighteen, but right now it seems that she might need a more relaxed hashkafa, even if it doesn't match yours. Maybe it's better to salvage what you can in that area and trust to what you can give her at home to strengthen her religiously.

I'm not sure what you are hoping for in terms of good academics. You don’t give details, but you say your daughter is in a class for learning difficulties. That probably means she's not in the top tier academically. I'd be more inclined to consider their level and approach to special education, rather than their overall academic level. Which school has a learning difficulties class better geared to her needs?

amother

Caramel

Wed, Nov 06 2024, 8:57 am

Our DS goes to a Jewish high school where 5% are even shomer shabbos. He was seriously depressed in a frum day school so we switched him. When your child is unhappy nobody is happy.
Happy child outweighs hashkafa IMO. There are those parents that absolutely dont compromise (to the detriment of their child).

On the other hand DD had 3 different elementary schools. She eventually switched to a school more to the right than our hashkafa and it was difficult for her in many ways for at least a year because she was behind academically. Initially, especially after the holidays the first year, she refused to go back. But she did. 2 years later she struggled with depression and she started meds and therapy. Her school was patient and supportive of her. Baruch Hashem, today she is in high school and doing so well. She is such a joy and so resilient after so many ups and downs earlier on.
Hatzlacha. May Hashem guide you in your decision.