Vent- hate having Sil for Shabbos but have no choice

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:37 am

amother OP wrote:

Ive definitely become more assertive over the years! They used to come way more often. I put my foot down and now I invite them once in 6 months.

That is definitely a good coping skill, to set boundaries on what you can handle. I have a relative that I host at a specific time, specific amount per year, because that's what I decided I can handle, and not more. It's a choice of - do what I can, or do nothing! - so I do what I can. (and it's with communication, but this is as far I as I got with this person.)

But I do sincerely believe you could also develop yourself more, by communicating basic expectations to your SIL (that any normal hostess deserves from her guests! And yes, that you really shouldn't have to communicate! But such is the world, Hashem created people who are dysfunctional, and sometimes they are our relatives!) and it would benefit both of you!

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:46 am

Seems like I'm the odd one out. But I would suck it up for the 1 or 2 shabbosim a year. Hide all important things you don't want taken.
Then once, baby is done eating, simply say "wow, she ate so nicely! Do you mind cleaning the high chair while I clean off the table? "
But passed there, I would just clean the guestroom and suck it up for the sake of shalom. Not that I'd be happy about it. I'd be very upset. But I'd do it.

amother

↑ Butterscotch ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:49 am

amother Mistyrose wrote:

But that’s not what shalom is. That’s just being used and abused. There isn’t actually peace when you feel terrible, it’s just fake hashem is not fooled, so you didn’t really swallow anything for the sake of peace.

amother

Banana ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:51 am

amother OP wrote:

I would never feel comfortable embarrassing someone like that 🤷‍♀️

I actually agree that telling her she shouldn’t have eaten something could make her feel terrible, even if she’s a bad guest.

About everything else, I like to say things in the moment. When they’re getting ready to leave- “chany, please take out the garbage before you go.”

When she comes - “I don’t let food upstairs anymore, please remind your kids.” And you remind them too.

How about if you enforce one new boundary at each visit? Pick whatever’s easiest and go from there. It’s hard but you’ll be much happier when you do.

notshanarishona

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:53 am

A sibling doesn’t have any obligation to host another sibling. Just tell your other siblings to be discreet when you invite them and not tell others to avoid jealousy. Unless you all live near each other it’s very easy to keep a secret.
Siblings are more typically on closer to equal footing as far being busy, financial status, young kids it’s much easier to come up with reasonable reasons why you can’t host someone.
Also , someone who doesn’t respect boundaries shouldn’t have free rein of your freezer.
I would tell her to ask you before taking out food and say that sny food she can have without asking is on the counter.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:58 am

amother Butterscotch wrote:

Just because I feel terrible doesn’t mean that’s not shalom! What is that even supposed to mean “Hashem is not fooled”? Swallowing things just for the sake of peace instead of fighting is major!

amother

Rainbow

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 12:00 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

This. I never heard of an obligation of inviting siblings for Shabbos. Why don't you invite her for a Sunday BBQ once or twice a year? Why does she have to live in your house if she behaves this way? I definitely would not invite her for Shabbos.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 12:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

So it's interesting because I was recently talking to a relative of mine (a healthy one BH) about this. I used to be alot like this, I'm also more of a people pleaser by nature and I would swallow alot. But underneath that I resented the intrusion on my space, my privacy, my boundaries....and though I think swallowing for peace is major....I have come to a place where I believe being able to communicate and set healthy boundaries and have real peace and promote growth is even greater.

amother

↑ Butterscotch

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 12:24 pm

amother OP wrote:

Shalom is more than forced outward appearances. It’s about how you actually feel. And if you are being mistreated you do not have shalom with that person. And it’s a greater level to nicely set healthy boundaries in place with people so you can achieve real shalom, actually living peacefully with people and not resenting them.

amother

Turquoise

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 12:28 pm

When I'm a guest I don't take out the garbage from my room. I didn't know I was supposed to.

(I make sure to take out diapers, and would never leave wrappers out or tissues on the floor. But I don't empty the garbage can)

Is this an expectation of guests? I never knew this.

↑ groovy1224 ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 12:31 pm

amother OP wrote:

This is sometimes true, but you don't actually know if you are swallowing things instead of fighting. You haven't tried communicating with her. She might actually respond better than you'd expect. Fighting might not even be an option on the table.

IMO, swallowing something for the sake of shalom is a backup plan. It's what you consider doing after first trying to work it out, but failing. Repeatedly taking the 'high road' can be unhealthy because after a lifetime of doing it, you may find yourself extremely resentful.

zaq

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 12:45 pm

Oy. My heart goes out to you. It's easy to say "don't host them" but she's your DH sister (I assume) and he's got a say in the matter. Dare I suggest insisting that your dh clean up after them? It's HIS sister, after all. Maybe after a few cleanup sessions he'll see your point.

As for the snooping and sneaking stuff you meant for others, sequester what you can in your room, and label the rest "reserved for _______(occasion or person), don't touch, this means you. $25 fine for trespassing." Use a padlocked box or something if necessary. (Not, perhaps, practical for the food in the fridge.)

That there are people like this is appalling. That there are frum people like this boggles the mind.

amother

Birch

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 12:49 pm

groovy1224 wrote:

Yesssss
I have a SIL like this too, except thankfully she doesn't leave actual garbage, but her kids make huge messes and she comments on literally everything that I do or have. It drives me crazy. They also overstay their welcome and will leave the kids to go for a walk or a "quick" errand when kids "are sleeping" (spoiler alert: they are not).

I tell her kids directly that they need to clean up (as in "everyone, it's time to clean up, Chani/Dovid/Shlomo come clean up the toys/books/snack") and at this point, my kids also tell her kids that they need to clean up. I realized at one point that my swallowing was harming my kids because they'd have more to clean up or their stuff would get wrecked, and they started resenting their cousins too.

After a few too many times of swallowing and taking the high road, I exploded at her, which I am not proud of, but it definitely helped me recognize that I need to be more assertive and stop bottling it all up. Plus, though she was mighty insulted, I think she realized that I am not in fact always thrilled to host them.

amother

Cornsilk

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 1:17 pm

You can put a "welcome" sign in the guest room
I've seen that in many places
Hi welcome to our house here's the code and wifi, in this house we only eat in the kitchen and dining room, please respect that and don't eat in the bedroom. Please only use tissues or whatever, you could tell her kids in front of her "in this house we only take out a toy after we put away the other toys. I'm trying to teach my children that, can you show them by example?" She can't really say no to that

amother

Camellia

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 1:29 pm

I have a SIL who comes and her and BIL don't watch their kids and their kids are wild and make huge messes. They don't get up with them in the morning or in middle of the night. SIL doesn't help at all when she is here. If I ask for help she tells her DH to do it and the poor guy is already doing more than most guys so I feel bad.
The catch is that we really do enjoy their company and my kids enjoy their kids company. For that I do have them over 2 or so times a year but I know in advance what it's going to be like and I just suck it up. Communicating has never helped.

ora_43 ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 1:46 pm

amother OP wrote:

I would never feel comfortable embarrassing someone like that 🤷‍♀️

Even if the alternative is to resent her so much you don't invite her over?

I think there are nicer ways to say those things. Eg it's nicer to tell someone in advance "just so you know, the stuff in the blue bag is stuff I'm saving for later - everything else is fine to take" than to tell someone who's already eating "I was saving that."

But big picture, both of those things are nicer than stewing in resentment. She already notices that you don't like her (so much so that she complained to her mother, which... wut??). And you say that she's not mean, so presumably she'd be upset to know that she's upsetting you.

Think of it this way: if you were doing something that annoyed the heck out of her, would you want her to find a gentle way to communicate that? Or would you want her to never tell you and get secretly annoyed with you every single time?