S/o Nanny vs day care - attachment

amother

OP ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:01 am

Quote:

Attachment parenting is made up by a man. It includes bedsharing, babywearing, breastfeeding etc. It's all nice and objectively valuable but is not the same as creating secure attachment.

Attachment theory is a vast and legitimate field of research since the 1950s.

Wow, I'm mind-blown right now.
I've always wondered about this. My mom did "attachment parenting". She breastfed for 2+ years, bedshared etc... yet I was left with a gaping abandonment wound. Yes,she was emotionally and physically neglectful but I would always question my experience. I wondered if I was making things up. Even after working through so much of it in therapy.
Thank you for this clarity and my renewed commitment to creating secure attachment with my kids.

Did anyone else experience this juxtaposition?

amother

Jade

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:11 am

I always knew this!!!
Some people on this site can really gaslight you lol!!
They treat breastfeeding and cosleeping as this holy experience and there’s a lot of shaming around bottle feeding and dare I say it, sleep training!!!

But guess what, an emotionally in tuned mom can bottle feed and sleep train and be an amazing mom at the same time! Maybe even better one cuz she has her sleep (and sanity!!)

amother

Crystal ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:11 am

amother Valerian wrote:

Yes, my mother breastfed and was very into health but I was emotionally and somewhat physically neglected. Unfortunately the nanny wasn’t great either.

Same, same.

I think ultimately what fosters a secure attachment is consistency, not specific practices.

amother

Blonde ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:12 am

Me. My mother did extended breastfeeding, wore us in wraps in the 80s, bed shared, kept us home until we were 4.
But was not at all in tuned to our world, our needs, our experience.

Made us feel like she was doing all that attaching stuff for her, to make her look like a good parent, not because she cared about us
Martyred herself and expected us to show undying appreciation.

Would refuse to introduce bottles or pacifiers or any other soothing methods and then complain nonstop in our earshot how exhausted she was because the baby was using her as a pacifier.

I remember being 4 and having a nightmare and crying. She told me to be quiet already, just come into her bed and be quiet. The next day she complained to a friend how tired she was because I was in her bed all night. I remember thinking that I wish I didn't have to go to her bed, I wished I knew what else to do when I had nightmares.

She would complain to my father and everyone around that we were driving her crazy, being wild, making a mess and I remember thinking "so send us to playgroup like the neighbors if you don't want to play with us"

amother

↑ Crystal ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:14 am

amother Blonde wrote:

Oy oy oy

That sounds awful Sad

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:18 am

amother Blonde wrote:

That's horrible!!!
I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Yes it's the parent's way of filling themselves up while using their kids.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:20 am

amother Crystal wrote:

Same, same.

I think ultimately what fosters a secure attachment is consistency, not specific practices.

More than consistency you have to actually care about your kid! It's more about how you feel towards your dc than what you do or don't do.

amother

↑ Blonde

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:21 am

amother OP wrote:

That's horrible!!!
I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Yes it's the parent's way of filling themselves up while using their kids.

Its also a classic case of unhealthy, likely personality disordered people jumping on parenting trends that they think will make them look good and impressive.

But it's all about what will make them look good, what they can brag about, or complain about, not what's actually good for their family.

amother

↑ Crystal

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:21 am

amother OP wrote:

More than consistency you have to actually care about your kid! It's more about how you feel towards your dc than what you do or don't do.

True.

It takes a healthy parent to raise healthy children. I think that’s pretty much the bottom line here.

amother

↑ Valerian

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:27 am

amother Crystal wrote:

True.

It takes a healthy parent to raise healthy children. I think that’s pretty much the bottom line here.

But even if you’re not healthy, noticing when your heart is closed (probably due to your own trauma) and putting yourself in their shoes constantly I’m sure can go a long way.

mushkamothers ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 11:30 am

amother Crystal wrote:

Same, same.

I think ultimately what fosters a secure attachment is consistency, not specific practices.

There's a pretty clear formula for creating secure attachment and it has nothing to do with the "attachment parenting" book.

Safe
Seen
Soothed
Leads to secure

Or basically, being consistent, responsive and attuned (all 3)... up to 30% or maybe even 50% of the time. Lots of leeway.

I'm glad the frum world caught on to the word attachment but they seem to not have grasped what it really means. Attachment science is mind blowing. It's like the chassidus of relationship. Understanding it changes your parenting, relationship with your parents and spouse and even your boss and friends. It's a huge chunk of my online course and a pillar of what I teach because it's essential to parenting.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 1:02 pm

mushkamothers wrote:

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
It's so simple yet such hard work for those of us who weren't safe, seen and soothed.

What are the best books on this topic?

amother

↑ OP

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 1:11 pm

amother Valerian wrote:

But even if you’re not healthy, noticing when your heart is closed (probably due to your own trauma) and putting yourself in their shoes constantly I’m sure can go a long way.

For sure,
That's the definition of healthy. It doesn't mean being a perfect parent. It means being able to tune into yourself when you're blocked and repairing when necessary.

amother

Magnolia

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 2:34 pm

Yup. My mother was great with infants. She nursed on demand, co slept, would never ever hear of sleep training, etc. Didn’t send any of us out until 3yrs. But she was terrible with kids…she had no patience or interest in their day to day, didn’t know how to show affection or set boundaries. We were emotionally neglected and on occasion physically. She also kept having babies even when it was no longer safe for her physically and emotionally because she just wanted babies to care for, and most ended up in miscarriage because she was well past the age of healthy eggs.

Most of us siblings do not have secure attachments, and those that do did a lot of self work. Some siblings joke about being emotionally stunted. Yes, they are so emotionally detached that it’s funny that our childhood left them stunted. Most of us have a very superficial relationship with our mother out of duty, not actual connection.

So no, attachment isn’t just about breastfeeding and co sleeping.

↑ mushkamothers

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 2:43 pm

amother OP wrote:

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
It's so simple yet such hard work for those of us who weren't safe, seen and soothed.

What are the best books on this topic?

Safe, seen, soothed is taught by Daniel Siegel and Tina Payne Bryson, their books are fantastic in general

It depends what angle you want.

For general overview - I'm in middle of reading Attachment Effect by Peter Lovenheim which isn't teaching me anything new so I guess it's a good overview of everything in general.
books by Diane Poole Heather
I read some of the original works of Bowlby and Ainsworth but it's slow going and obviously the research has since evolved

Adult attachment - Sue Johnson

Dealing with emotionally immature mothers (what you guys are describing) - authors Jasmin Lee Cori, Jonice Webb, Mark Wolynn

A Strange Situation by Bethany Saltman is absolutely beautiful - both a look at mother-daughter and a very deep understanding of the work of Mary Ainsworth

Parenting -
Hold Onto your Kids by Gordon Neufeld
The Secure Chlid by Charley Greenspan
Parenting from the Inside Out
Being There by Erica Komisar - with a disclaimer that I don't believe her view on daycares is relevant to what most frum people use as babysitters or playgroups

There are other very popular works, some of them I haven't read and some I just can't remember specifically but even an Amazon or reddit search will give you titles and reviews

amother

Indigo

Mon, Nov 04 2024, 4:55 pm

amother Jade wrote:

THIS!!! and its not only on this website. it's in real life too...