Yours mine and ours in family first

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 10:18 am

I guess this is so far removed from me to be ludicrous. If you don't have the money, you don't spend it, certainly not to keep asking your kids for it.
They should be selling the second home and trying to work within more basic standards.
The kids should all make an agreement not to keep bailing the father out. It's a black hole and pouring more money into it isn't going to solve the issue. Yes, emotionally it's really tough, but you gotta do it for their benefit.

amother

Alyssum

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 10:20 am

Chayalle wrote:

I have a relative with relatives like this. They made a Simcha top-of-the-line with the most expensive of everything, and my relative who lives simply was approached with request to finance that Simcah because you know they don't have money......

Same relative looks her nose down at my relative when buying her kids last-season's sale clothing, she only buys her own kids the new styles.....and then my relative gets approached with tzedaka requests because they don't have money.....

It's really mind-boggling...

Does the relative B really agree to help finance relative A, especially while A looks down at B? If so, I hope B just read this mishpacha article and takes it to heart...

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 10:27 am

amother Leaf wrote:

In this case it’s about money so it’s obvious that what the parents did was wrong. But imagine the story was about an emotional burden that they expect the kids to help with and bail out. I think this is far more common in frum circles and equally as damaging.

Such as what?? What emotional burden?

↑ Chayalle ↓

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 10:38 am

amother Alyssum wrote:

Does the relative B really agree to help finance relative A, especially while A looks down at B? If so, I hope B just read this mishpacha article and takes it to heart...

What ends up happening is that relative B's husband feels bad for his sibling despite whatever goes on with the wives, and he pitches in with money they don't really have.....

amother

Anemone ↓

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 10:39 am

Chayalle wrote:

I truly believe that this a symptoms of mental illness. I have a relative who as far as I know does not ask for money from family and does not live the way described but has a clothing addiction like I've never seen before and spends astronomical amounts on designer clothing, sheitels and jewellery when she lives with a large family in a tiny, filthy apartment. She and her husband both work so there must be some disposable income coming in but I cannot fathom why you would spend so much on clothing for yourself but not on basic, decent living conditions. Anyway, my points is that there are other aspects of her personality that point to some kind of mental illness. From what can see the compulsion to spend is stronger than she is. She actually admits that it is. It's probably like this for anyone who spends exorbitantly on anything. It's an addiction like alcoholism that is probably near impossible to get rid of....as soon as they have a bit of money to spend it will go on nonsense rather than basics.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 11:02 am

amother Snow wrote:

That story was crazy and clearly fiction. I was shocked by the mothers twisted logic “it’s because of the kids that were in this situation so…”

I've heard that excuse verbatim. They're only in debt because of the kids, and they refuse to acknowledge how their lavish lifestyle contributed to their financial woes. They even tried to say that one of the kids needed something $$$ and that was why money was so tight at the moment. They even told me how much it cost, but the whole thing was a flat out lie.

It's a sickness.

amother

Acacia

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 11:12 am

I have a brother in law just like this. He spends as if he is so Rich and then "borrows " money from my husband and never pays back. You should see his simchas and the car this "rich" brother in law has. I just get so upset when people say that you have to support poor people the way they lived when they were rich. I just don't believe that this bil was ever really rich. I do believe that he always wanted to be rich and always lived richly. People where collecting for him money before he made his first wedding and by now he made so many weddings and none were average simchas.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 11:13 am

amother Anemone wrote:

I think this may be true in some situations, but I don't believe it always is. Some of this is symptomatic of pure materialism, cultural perceptions of need, etc.....

amother

↑ Anemone ↓

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 11:32 am

Chayalle wrote:

I think this may be true in some situations, but I don't believe it always is. Some of this is symptomatic of pure materialism, cultural perceptions of need, etc.....

I think materialism, peer pressure and other cultural factors definitely feed these issues. There is also spending a little above what you should and totally out of control spending as described in the story and by you. Just like some people can be in an environment where alcohol is served and acceptable but keep their drinking down to a glass or two, and others cannot control themselves. I live in a pretty materialistic community. I would love to have a nicer house, buy nicer clothes , make nicer Simchas etc but I can't, so I don't. Others cannot withstand the temptation.

amother

↑ Leaf

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 11:44 am

amother OP wrote:

Such as what?? What emotional burden?

Like parents fighting and wanting kids to take sides. Like parents having an issue with their younger children and wanting married kids to solve it. Like parents having deep issues like reputation being smearing in community and wanting kids to defend them. Like parents wanting adult children to help in legal matters. Like parents having strong emotions to day to day stresses and wanting married kids to be their friend/therapist.
This is enmeshment/parentifying/role reversal/codependency.
When it comes from a parent crying to you; it is VERY hard to resist and make boundaries. But many are sucked in. But if you’re married to someone who is entangled with their parents—you can’t just transfer your husband to a different bank account like she did with her money. It’s a lot stickier, and I think a lot more common than the money scenario. But the behavior is extremely similar.

#BestBubby ↓

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 11:56 am

The children should have a meeting with a Rov who will guide them on how to stop giving $$$ they need to luxury spending father.

Then there will have to be an intervention with the parents that the $$$ is stopping.

And give parents the number of mesilla.

The children are ENABLING the fathers addiction.

amother

↑ OP

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 12:18 pm

amother Leaf wrote:

I have a father like this and after his 4th cry for divorce I stopped listening to him and keep my distance at an arms length. It IS possible but it takes tons of strength and therapy.

↑ Chayalle

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 12:20 pm

amother Anemone wrote:

Right but that doesn't make them mentally ill.

amother

Blonde

Sun, Oct 27 2024, 8:07 pm

Dd read it on YT and was livid.
"If you ever ask me for money to fund your summer home I will be so angry!!"

I'm like so frugal that we can't pay for so many things, don't worry dd, I have the opposite problem.

Inside I was thinking sounded like a real scenario from imamother.

amother

Valerian ↓

Yesterday at 4:48 am

amother Emerald wrote:

Maybe I should start a spinoff but I always had a question on the Halacha that re Tzedekka you are supposed to give a rich man what he is used to ……
My problem with that is that many pple have “rich standards “ because they are financially irresponsible
So us responsible folks are supposed to bail them out ? I have family members that live the high life and then we hear they don’t have money … if they wouldn’t have lived the high life when they were regular like us they wouldn’t have such high standards and wouldn’t have gotten into debt

I do not believe you give to people to help them live a comfortable lifestyle unless they were very well off - truly living within their means for years and then something catastrophic happened to put them in that situation. Otherwise it’s just spoiled people living financially irresponsible and absolutely should NOT fall on other family or community members laps. I’ve seen people be out of a job for months because they won’t accept jobs “beneath” them. Get if your high horse and take any job to not live off others paycheck.

amother

↑ Valerian

Yesterday at 4:58 am

amother Molasses wrote:

I think it's a really hard line cuz it's the guys parents. My sil bought a fancy house and is now struggling to pay the bills, am I supposed to give $ to cover the mortgage while I live in my very regular not fancy, small house? But how could we let them lose the house? I totally feel for the couple and can absolutely relate

Side note what happens when it's not the parents spending lavishly but insisting "Hashem will provide" when I am paying my siblings tuition, my other siblings just paid for a siblings wedding etc etc" obviously we do it but the casualness of the comments oftentimes bother me very much

Sorry but don’t feel bad - they put themselves in that situation. Buying a fancy house is an extra- you don’t do it unless you truly can afford and have months of savings put away for rainy days.
And I can’t stand when people use the bitachon card. Very nice but live within your means and be financially responsible and have betachon that the money will come. You only can spend AFTER that happens.

As for the article I think she should have at minimum made him go to therapy. He clearly has real issues to give that kind of money without his wife’s approval. So tremendously irresponsible. You don’t do chessed by hurting your own family- which is his wife now. And definitely don’t do chessed when you are just feeding someone’s mental illness. The fathers financial irresponsibility and the fact that he’s so ok with asking even though he’s destroying his children’s lives and relationships is very much a mental illness. Toxic, toxic.

amother

↑ Lemonchiffon

Yesterday at 7:05 am

amother Valerian wrote:

Crazy that this really happens.

Caused major shalom bayis issues in my family, BH we’re out of the house and it doesn’t come into play anymore. But my childhood I remember being made fun of not having a house or a car but no one knew why… very sad.