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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
Queen Of Hearts
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 Tue, Oct 29 2024, 9:55 am
| amother OP wrote: | May I speak to my therapist, about whatever I want to? I don't think I need anyone's permission to discuss with my therapist, whatever I want to. She will already guide me, and explore my feelings what's good and what needs work.
Why are people having an issue, if I want to talk to my therapist about it? I don't get it. |
No one is having an issue with you speaking to your therapist. The only thing discouraged was contacting your son's previous kallah.
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flowerpower
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 9:56 am
Of course you can talk to your therapist regarding any topic. That is what they are there for.
Your son dodged a bullet. As painful as it was he was spared from living with seemingly toxic in laws
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 10:04 am
| flowerpower wrote: | Of course you can talk to your therapist regarding any topic. That is what they are there for.
Your son dodged a bullet. As painful as it was he was spared from living with seemingly toxic in laws |
We reckon that. Hashem spared us.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 10:08 am
| Queen Of Hearts wrote: | | No one is having an issue with you speaking to your therapist. The only thing discouraged was contacting your son's previous kallah. |
More than one person questioned why I need to discuss with my therapist.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 10:10 am
| Queen Of Hearts wrote: | | No one is having an issue with you speaking to your therapist. The only thing discouraged was contacting your son's previous kallah. |
You aren't. Some other people are for some odd reason.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 11:50 am
The fact that she got engaged, gives closure to all parties involved, and helps everyone move fwd to next stage. Even for myself, knowing she got helped and is being taken care of. Hashem is in charge, and fits everyone into the puzzle of where they belong and which characters pop in and out of our scenes on stage of our lives.
Both couples should live happily ever after.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 1:43 pm
| amother OP wrote: | The fact that she got engaged, gives closure to all parties involved, and helps everyone move fwd to next stage. Even for myself, knowing she got helped and is being taken care of. Hashem is in charge, and fits everyone into the puzzle of where they belong and which characters pop in and out of our scenes on stage of our lives.
Both couples should live happily ever after. |
It may feel like closure for you but it is not always.
As others said, do not reach out to her. It can cause more harm than good for all. And it will continue to prevent you from moving forward.
I have an ex and we wanted to marry. There was a HUGE misunderstanding and it was broken off by him.
It was meant to be a break for mental health (intensive therapy before moving forward to engagement) not a BREAK off completely but it was mis-conveyed and I was told to move on and redt to others.
It took soooo long to let go for both of us even in our own relationships because of all the "I still care for you so xyz makes me think of you and through the grapevine will be told".
It just reminds of the "what if" especially if they wanted to go through with it AND makes any issue of the current relationship feel worse because MAYBE if we went through with the first one it wouldn't be this way.
I love my husband. I am in the best marriage for me. I see why this one is a better fit than the last one. It was hashgacha that we had that miscommunication. But even with all that...the "what if" thoughts came up when these kinds of well meaning things happened.
Do yourself a favor. Discuss with your therapist and work through it. Ignore those that are saying not to. You have something to process and it's smart to get assistance from a "processing" expert. And continue no contact.
May you get lots of nachas from the new couple!
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 3:09 pm
| amother DarkMagenta wrote: | It may feel like closure for you but it is not always.
As others said, do not reach out to her. It can cause more harm than good for all. And it will continue to prevent you from moving forward.
I have an ex and we wanted to marry. There was a HUGE misunderstanding and it was broken off by him.
It was meant to be a break for mental health (intensive therapy before moving forward to engagement) not a BREAK off completely but it was mis-conveyed and I was told to move on and redt to others.
It took soooo long to let go for both of us even in our own relationships because of all the "I still care for you so xyz makes me think of you and through the grapevine will be told".
It just reminds of the "what if" especially if they wanted to go through with it AND makes any issue of the current relationship feel worse because MAYBE if we went through with the first one it wouldn't be this way.
I love my husband. I am in the best marriage for me. I see why this one is a better fit than the last one. It was hashgacha that we had that miscommunication. But even with all that...the "what if" thoughts came up when these kinds of well meaning things happened.
Do yourself a favor. Discuss with your therapist and work through it. Ignore those that are saying not to. You have something to process and it's smart to get assistance from a "processing" expert. And continue no contact.
May you get lots of nachas from the new couple! |
Thank you. That means a lot! Thanks for being vulnerable and sharing your experience!
ETA
Of course, need to process with my therapist my own feelings, thoughts anxieties, like all the what ifs.....
Then the closure I'm referring to was that she was on my mind, being in her family dynamics, how she'd at all get engaged and move fwd. That I don't need to worry or think about anymore bh.
My son started her on her journey of healing, and finding herself, and sorting herself out with her parents, while he was engaged to her.
We were trying to make it work for all ends, when it was in limbo, but it didn't work out. She said she'll start therapy and sort herself out. She told my son, that no matter if we do end up marrying each other's at end or not, I will forever be grateful you, for you gave me the biggest gift, by starting me on my journey of self healing.
Therefore I'm so happy for her, that she was able to get into a better state, and move on.
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Queen Of Hearts
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 3:37 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | More than one person questioned why I need to discuss with my therapist. |
I apologize I must have missed those.
Hashem should grant you all closure and much happiness going forward! 
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 3:48 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | Yes, shadchan only called parents when they were ready to get engaged. She redt the shidduch to the prospects first, and they started dating . They didn't let at that point, it got delayed another week, and shadchan pushed parents, to allow them to get engaged. |
Sounds like an atypical situation, and perhaps her parents had concerns and her well-being at heart. Them being against a shidduch that was redt without their knowledge, to a boy not in their circles, does not make them monsters.
I have a sibling who married a boy that was redt by a Shadchan, not to my parents. Not going into tremendous detail, but at the time my sibling was young and enamored with a guy who paid attention to her, when she had been having a tough time in shidduchim. She has since learned that marriage with the type of boy who would do this type of shidduch, is not an easy road. I sometimes wonder if she would rather turn back the clock....she is definitely making the best of a challenging situation.
My parents (who were against the shidduch, but supported her choice in the end in order not to lose her) were perhaps more experienced in the ways of the world and actually cared about her.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 4:03 pm
| amother Bluebonnet wrote: | Sounds like an atypical situation, and perhaps her parents had concerns and her well-being at heart. Them being against a shidduch that was redt without their knowledge, to a boy not in their circles, does not make them monsters.
I have a sibling who married a boy that was redt by a Shadchan, not to my parents. Not going into tremendous detail, but at the time my sibling was young and enamored with a guy who paid attention to her, when she had been having a tough time in shidduchim. She has since learned that marriage with the type of boy who would do this type of shidduch, is not an easy road. I sometimes wonder if she would rather turn back the clock....she is definitely making the best of a challenging situation.
My parents (who were against the shidduch, but supported her choice in the end in order not to lose her) were perhaps more experienced in the ways of the world and actually cared about her. |
It's true that if your not familiar with other circles, it can be scary to allow the intermarriage, and yes after marriage could be huge adjustments and culture shock and clash.
That's why best to stick to own type, but by the time they got engaged, they had worked thru all their diff, that everything should align, they sat with a rav, with both sets of values, and what they're seeking, and my son got her exposed to acclimate to the new climate, so she can integrate more easily.
Problem was that parents weren't privy to all this. She didn't share anything she discussed on dates, with them. So when she came to them,telling them she want to get engaged to this chassidish guy, they thought she's nuts. She doesn't know what she's getting into. They had little awareness, connection to any chassidim.
In a way, they could've worked out any diff between themselves if nobody got involved. It was complicated what happened at end, how it went sour, and got messed up, which I'm not getting into any details here, to keep the privacy on both ends.
Bh my son found chassidish girl. And she found a non chassidish boy. So all is good.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 4:09 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Thank you. That means a lot! Thanks for being vulnerable and sharing your experience!
ETA
Of course, need to process with my therapist my own feelings, thoughts anxieties, like all the what ifs.....
Then the closure I'm referring to was that she was on my mind, being in her family dynamics, how she'd at all get engaged and move fwd. That I don't need to worry or think about anymore bh.
My son started her on her journey of healing, and finding herself, and sorting herself out with her parents, while he was engaged to her.
We were trying to make it work for all ends, when it was in limbo, but it didn't work out. She said she'll start therapy and sort herself out. She told my son, that no matter if we do end up marrying each other's at end or not, I will forever be grateful you, for you gave me the biggest gift, by starting me on my journey of self healing.
Therefore I'm so happy for her, that she was able to get into a better state, and move on. |
I hear. And I'm saying that is not closure. Or even if it feels like it would be closure, an act of closure for you can be an act of harm for her.
My ex and I had similar convos. Each time it was "closure". But anytime a new situation happened it reopened things which kind of let us know that there wasn't really closure and there was something that still needs processing.
I remember a couple years into marriage, I was going through some horrible things in my relationship I wouldn't wish on anyone. He found out and that just opened a really big can of worms for both of us.
I'm happy you're happy kind of closure with these contigencies is sort of taking responsibility on yourself for something that isn't yours instead of processing it.
What happens if God forbid someone struggles in marriage? Fertility? Gets divorced? If it's not processed in a different way...any situation will bring that what if and you find the closure wasnt really closure but something unprocessed.
But that's been my experience. YMMV so a therapist is a great idea!
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 4:10 pm
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And you're right, the type of chassidish boy that's ready to take a non chassidish girl, is usually looking for lower standard than where he's coming from, and the non chassidish girl that's looking to shteig and thinking with marrying chassidish she's upping, and getting loftier....and it doesn't always work out like that. Sometimes they balance each other's out , and find each others in the middle, and it works, but sometimes they miss each other's while one is on way down and other on way up.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 4:19 pm
| amother OP wrote: | It's true that if your not familiar with other circles, it can be scary to allow the intermarriage, and yes after marriage could be huge adjustments and culture shock and clash.
That's why best to stick to own type, but by the time they got engaged, they had worked thru all their diff, that everything should align, they sat with a rav, with both sets of values, and what they're seeking, and my son got her exposed to acclimate to the new climate, so she can integrate more easily.
Problem was that parents weren't privy to all this. She didn't share anything she discussed on dates, with them. So when she came to them,telling them she want to get engaged to this chassidish guy, they thought she's nuts. She doesn't know what she's getting into. They had little awareness, connection to any chassidim.
In a way, they could've worked out any diff between themselves if nobody got involved. It was complicated what happened at end, how it went sour, and got messed up, which I'm not getting into any details here, to keep the privacy on both ends.
Bh my son found chassidish girl. And she found a non chassidish boy. So all is good. |
There is no dating and preparation and working things out that takes the place of actual experience and living it in real life. You really don't know how she would actually have acclimated to the marriage and integrated in your community. Obviously Hashem did not want this shidduch to proceed, and BH He sent each of them someone from their own circles. I think you really need to let this go, know that it worked out for the best. You don't really know if it could have worked out well.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 4:21 pm
| amother DarkMagenta wrote: | I hear. And I'm saying that is not closure. Or even if it feels like it would be closure, an act of closure for you can be an act of harm for her.
My ex and I had similar convos. Each time it was "closure". But anytime a new situation happened it reopened things which kind of let us know that there wasn't really closure and there was something that still needs processing.
I remember a couple years into marriage, I was going through some horrible things in my relationship I wouldn't wish on anyone. He found out and that just opened a really big can of worms for both of us.
I'm happy you're happy kind of closure with these contigencies is sort of taking responsibility on yourself for something that isn't yours instead of processing it.
What happens if God forbid someone struggles in marriage? Fertility? Gets divorced? If it's not processed in a different way...any situation will bring that what if and you find the closure wasnt really closure but something unprocessed.
But that's been my experience. YMMV so a therapist is a great idea! |
So idk what you're getting at, because I'm not doing any act, at all to interfere in her life right now, and yes I'm taking all my thoughts about her, to my therapist room, to get over my own feelings.
I'm saying closure for me is, that she got engaged, so I don't need to think about her anymore. That's all. (After processing with my therapist, and her helping me of letting go of any thoughts about her anymore)
I realize now, why it's so hard for me, because we invested in her.
Bh with new kallah, I didn't have to invest, because her parents are on board with the shidduch, and they take care of her, it not on me. Her physical needs, and emotional needs. She stable and good. Financial needs for her wedding preps.
This might be why I'm not so connected to her yet, because I wasn't so involved with her.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 4:22 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | And you're right, the type of chassidish boy that's ready to take a non chassidish girl, is usually looking for lower standard than where he's coming from, and the non chassidish girl that's looking to shteig and thinking with marrying chassidish she's upping, and getting loftier....and it doesn't always work out like that. Sometimes they balance each other's out , and find each others in the middle, and it works, but sometimes they miss each other's while one is on way down and other on way up. |
In my sibling's case....I think she was just looking for a happy marriage with a nice guy. She was not looking for Chassidish, she was not looking for shteiging in a Chassidish way, she was not upping or getting loftier (there's enough of that in the litvish lifestyle, we don't necessarily view Chassidish as "more than"). He was definitely looking for a lower standard and thought he'd find that in a Litvish girl (perhaps that's what he was raised to think of those who are not Chassidish). So many conflicts in this because he found she is not into being more cool, not into the standard he's on, and also has expectations in a husband that are not his culturally. He has expectations of a wife that are not hers culturally.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 4:31 pm
| amother Bluebonnet wrote: | | In my sibling's case....I think she was just looking for a happy marriage with a nice guy. She was not looking for Chassidish, she was not looking for shteiging in a Chassidish way, she was not upping or getting loftier (there's enough of that in the litvish lifestyle, we don't necessarily view Chassidish as "more than"). He was definitely looking for a lower standard and thought he'd find that in a Litvish girl (perhaps that's what he was raised to think of those who are not Chassidish). So many conflicts in this because he found she is not into being more cool, not into the standard he's on, and also has expectations in a husband that are not his culturally. He has expectations of a wife that are not hers culturally. |
Right exactly so.
It's a way people say, look yeshivish have shidduch crisis with older girls and chassidish has shidduch crisis with older boys, let's mix n match them and solve the crisis, but it not so simple.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 4:43 pm
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We went all out to make her feel welcome and accepted, because she was coming from a diff background, and didn't have the support of her family, that she needed for this marriage.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 4:47 pm
Thanks for the therapy session, this thread helped me process, and become aware of my own feelings and why I have them. I didn't have session with my therapist yet.
Really I wasn't going to go into all the details, just wanted to know what the right thing to do is. So thanks everyone, who gave me food for thought, and allowed me to explore my feelings and come to my own awareness.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 29 2024, 6:56 pm
| amother OP wrote: | So idk what you're getting at, because I'm not doing any act, at all to interfere in her life right now, and yes I'm taking all my thoughts about her, to my therapist room, to get over my own feelings.
I'm saying closure for me is, that she got engaged, so I don't need to think about her anymore. That's all. (After processing with my therapist, and her helping me of letting go of any thoughts about her anymore)
I realize now, why it's so hard for me, because we invested in her.
Bh with new kallah, I didn't have to invest, because her parents are on board with the shidduch, and they take care of her, it not on me. Her physical needs, and emotional needs. She stable and good. Financial needs for her wedding preps.
This might be why I'm not so connected to her yet, because I wasn't so involved with her. |
I'm merely just saying (in more words) that's its really worth working through in a space that encourages processing. Including the closure piece.
Just having this conversation led you to see there's more underneath. If there's more underneath, thinking that her being engaged is going to be the closure piece might feel like it for now but it could also be some other feeling underneath that could be stirred up again next time it comes up. It may not. Idk you or your situation but it seems like there is something going on for you (not talking about her as you didn't reach out! This is an opportunity to reflect and grow for you)
I hope you are able to work through the things in a way that works for you all!
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