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-> Succos
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amother
Moccasin
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 Mon, Oct 14 2024, 11:58 am
| amother Lawngreen wrote: | | Many rabbonim hold this way. And that is why there's so much financial help for yom tov. No one should be stuck eating chicken on the bone for financial reasons. |
The halacha is very clear that if you eat like this without supporting others, you may as well be eating dung!
Rambam, hilchos yom tov, 6.18
כֵּיצַד. הַקְּטַנִּים נוֹתֵן לָהֶם קְלָיוֹת וֶאֱגוֹזִים וּמִגְדָּנוֹת. וְהַנָּשִׁים קוֹנֶה לָהֶן בְּגָדִים וְתַכְשִׁיטִין נָאִים כְּפִי מָמוֹנוֹ. וְהָאֲנָשִׁים אוֹכְלִין בָּשָׂר וְשׁוֹתִין יַיִן שֶׁאֵין שִׂמְחָה אֶלָּא בְּבָשָׂר וְאֵין שִׂמְחָה אֶלָּא בְּיַיִן. וּכְשֶׁהוּא אוֹכֵל וְשׁוֹתֶה חַיָּב לְהַאֲכִיל לַגֵּר לַיָּתוֹם וְלָאַלְמָנָה עִם שְׁאָר הָעֲנִיִּים הָאֻמְלָלִים. אֲבָל מִי שֶׁנּוֹעֵל דַּלְתוֹת חֲצֵרוֹ וְאוֹכֵל וְשׁוֹתֶה הוּא וּבָנָיו וְאִשְׁתּוֹ וְאֵינוֹ מַאֲכִיל וּמַשְׁקֶה לַעֲנִיִּים וּלְמָרֵי נֶפֶשׁ אֵין זוֹ שִׂמְחַת מִצְוָה אֶלָּא שִׂמְחַת כְּרֵסוֹ. וְעַל אֵלּוּ נֶאֱמַר (הושע ט ד) "זִבְחֵיהֶם כְּלֶחֶם אוֹנִים לָהֶם כָּל אֹכְלָיו יִטַּמָּאוּ כִּי לַחְמָם לְנַפְשָׁם". וְשִׂמְחָה כָּזוֹ קָלוֹן הִיא לָהֶם שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (מלאכי ב ג) "וְזֵרִיתִי פֶרֶשׁ עַל פְּנֵיכֶם פֶּרֶשׁ חַגֵּיכֶם":
What is implied? Children should be given roasted seeds, nuts, and sweets. For women, one should buy attractive clothes and jewelry according to one's financial capacity. Men should eat meat and drink wine, for there is no happiness without partaking of meat,nor is there happiness without partaking of wine.
When a person eats and drinks [in celebration of a holiday], he is obligated to feed converts, orphans, widows, and others who are destitute and poor. In contrast, a person who locks the gates of his courtyard and eats and drinks with his children and his wife, without feeding the poor and the embittered, is [not indulging in] rejoicing associated with a mitzvah, but rather the rejoicing of his gut.
And with regard to such a person [the verse, Hoshea 9:4] is applied: "Their sacrifices will be like the bread of mourners, all that partake thereof shall become impure, for they [kept] their bread for themselves alone." This happiness is a disgrace for them, as [implied by Malachi 2:3]: "I will spread dung on your faces, the dung of your festival celebrations."
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amother
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 11:58 am
Chicken on the bone/ chicken is fine for a yom tov meal and many hold chicken falls under basar anyway.
Now only serving soup and salad is a different story. Especially if it’s not a money factor but a I think all normal proteins are gluttonous factor.
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amother
Wandflower
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 12:03 pm
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Agree. I don’t look at the yom tov menu threads bc it makes me feel like I’m not doing enough when my husband and family don’t even eat the food I do make.
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amother
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 12:03 pm
| amother OP wrote: | No. Seriously, reading comprehension please. I was commenting on the point that you said no one should have to eat chicken on the bone for financial reasons. Did I call you or anyone else a glutton? No. Did I question or comment on your spending habits? Also no. Did I take offense to your chicken on the bone comment? Which to me, read like "no one should have to live on bread and salt for financial reasons". YES that I took offense to.
the entire reason I made this thread was to normalize the beautiful Yomtov one can make if they can't afford red meat. Not to say that red meat at every meal is so important, one should take tzedakka for it. |
Just saying I didn’t say that. I felt called out.
I guess it’s hard to differentiate the posters.
I had posted in one of the freezer threads. My freezer must sound crazy and I felt maybe this thread was addressing it.
I serve a tremendous amount of adults and teens at every meal.
I serve meat and chicken every meal to spread the meat thin do everyone can get. That is why I have so many dishes in my freezer.
I have lots of exciting meat side dishes to pad meals with chicken. It is lekovid yom tov and this way everyone can have a small bite of meat.
(As an example a $16 square roast made enough egg rolls for 2 full meals for 15 ppl per meal. )
I buy cuts of meat that are cheaper than chicken so we can have meat.
I e also been shopping the meat and chicken sales since shavous. Buying when what we like is cheapest. The nine days I find is the best time to buy meat…
Btw red meat can be extremely affordable.
I made plenty meals with meat lasagna and meat stew that costs significantly less than chicken.
And yes the word gluttonous was thrown around tremendously in this thread. It is true not by the op.
I still don’t think it is fair to make either side feel bad or judged
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amother
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 12:08 pm
| Quote: | I really wonder what people read when they twist a thread into what it's clearly not. Because I was SUPER CLEAR to note a few times that I am thrilled for people who make the larger meat filled meals. And I mean it.
I was also SUPER CLEAR that I wanted to note that you can also make a really nice yomtov without those things also. Because I know people read the freezer thread and felt bad. |
| amother OP wrote: | Thank you. I did not say anything about gluttony, someone else did though. If you can afford it, enjoy every bite! If you got the meat in a box, enjoy every bite! If you are like me and everyone is sick of chicken, enjoy the experience of sitting in the sukkah with your family and make THAT the focus, not the main course (meat). I make BH good sides that are cheap and interesting enough that we have great meals. Just not a lot or any red meat depending on the year.
Eilu v'eilu. This is good and that is good and no one should read this site and feel less than. And no one should ever think they need to buy red meat before they pay tuition (which I know is a thing people have to deal with, and I hope Bez"H no one here has that struggle). |
Maybe if everyone is picking up on something its how you wrote it not everyone twisting what you wrote. Firstly you didnt start by saying “for thise who can’t afford meat etc” you started by bashing another thread and writing “im astounded” so no, no ones teisting your words your judgement and jealousy came through loud and clear
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amother
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 12:10 pm
| amother Hyacinth wrote: | Just saying I didn’t say that. I felt called out.
I guess it’s hard to differentiate the posters.
I had posted in one of the freezer threads. My freezer must sound crazy and I felt maybe this thread was addressing it.
I serve a tremendous amount of adults and teens at every meal.
I serve meat and chicken every meal to spread the meat thin do everyone can get. That is why I have so many dishes in my freezer.
I have lots of exciting meat side dishes to bad meals with chicken. It is lekovid yom tov and this way everyone can have a small bite of meat.
(As an example a $16 square roast made enough egg rolls for 2 full meals for 15 ppl per meal. )
I buy cuts of meat that are cheaper than chicken so we can have meat.
Btw red meat can be extremely affordable.
I made plenty meals with meat lasagna and meat stew that costs significantly less than chicken.
And yes the word gluttonous was thrown around tremendously in this thread. It is true not by the op.
I still don’t think it is fair to make either side feel bad or judged |
Ok I will say this one last time.
My goal of this thread was to be mechazek others who can't afford to make more than chicken. Those like me who have to decide, rent or french roast. No one should decide french roast, not rent (and yes, people do make that call).
So where I am trying to be mechazek, others are putting down. People are putting down the meat at every meal people (they should not) and people are putting down the mainly chicken people (they should not).
I wanted to say, pay your bills, make a beautiful gevaldig chag, however you can best afford to, and no one should feel like they are doing it wrong if they dont collect tzedakka to do it (it's not always available!).
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amother
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 12:11 pm
| amother Silver wrote: | | Maybe if everyone is picking up on something its how you wrote it not everyone twisting what you wrote. Firstly you didnt start by saying “for thise who can’t afford meat etc” you started by bashing another thread and writing “im astounded” so no, no ones teisting your words your judgement and jealousy came through loud and clear |
You can read what you want into my words. I promise you, I am not jealous. But there is certainly a trend here to assign jealousy when someone expresses a sentiment on this theme.
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amother
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 12:18 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | You can read what you want into my words. I promise you, I am not jealous. But there is certainly a trend here to assign jealousy when someone expresses a sentiment on this theme. |
I believe when you say you're not jealous, but I do question hat you thought will happen when you started this thread. From the way you wrote the OP, it already sounded as if you think those who buy meat are wasting good money because if you make chicken work, why can't they? It was a downward spiral from there. People seemed to have picked up on your tone and added fuel to the fire.
I also want to point out that there wasn't any pity expressed onto those who don't eat meat, at least not what I saw. In general people don't really care what's on anyone else's menu so long as theirs is good filling and satisfies their family. Your thread seemed to be a sort of PSA to those who dare eat meat when officially we're all so financially strapped. You said many times that this was not your intention but read your posts, your tone is not a very light one.
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renslet
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 12:39 pm
I'm finding this idea interesting, cuz I've never found chicken to be so much cheaper. I can stretch meat lots of ways , but chicken everyone needs a piece.
I sometimes shred chicken breast and make egg rolls but that's not so much cheaper.
When I make a roast, I can slice really thin and give everyone two pieces and it's bakovedik, I can do pulled beef and make meat pizza. I can do lo mein with meat (or shnitzel) and use only a bit of protein in comparison to the whole dish.
Why is chicken so much cheaper
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mha3484
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 1:27 pm
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For me chicken is cheaper because if I served my 10 and 14 year old boys 2 thin slices of roast they would be back for seconds in like 5 minutes so to me it only stretches so far. If I serve a leg and thigh plus sides they are usually full. One of my kids really does not like the bone so he will ask me to cut the chicken off for him which is fine and that also means I can get more chicken out of it.
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honeymoon
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 1:36 pm
| amother Melon wrote: | | Who even talks about how much of anything they eat. You have no idea how many people those 2 roasts are feeding. Sheesh people. |
This. My sm/medium roast will be feeding my family of 7 for 2 meals, and I'll probably have some leftovers to repurpose on chol Hamoed. If you do the math, it's not that much more than serving everyone a full piece of chicken.
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SuperWify
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 1:43 pm
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I’ve bought London broil, baby back ribs, pot roast, flanken roast ect for about $15 a pack. Cheaper than chicken on a bone (which we don’t eat).
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amother
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 1:56 pm
| SuperWify wrote: | | I’ve bought London broil, baby back ribs, pot roast, flanken roast ect for about $15 a pack. Cheaper than chicken on a bone (which we don’t eat). |
Flanken roast? That’s as expensive as a rib roast. They sell for $150 for one roast.
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amother
DarkKhaki
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 2:20 pm
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We davka do meat based on halacha. Whatever is cheapest. I'm doing meatballs for two meals, roast for a third meal (was cheaper per lb than the ground beef), and beef stew for another (same price per lb as ground beef). If there's any leftover meat I'll use it for cholent, otherwise I'll make it pareve.
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SuperWify
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 2:31 pm
| amother Tangerine wrote: | | Flanken roast? That’s as expensive as a rib roast. They sell for $150 for one roast. |
Where do you live???
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mha3484
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 2:36 pm
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I just checked the grocery store that has the better meat selection in my city and a 3 bone flanken roast is 25.99 a lb. I think this is where we are all disagreeing.
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amother
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Mon, Oct 14 2024, 2:39 pm
Lakewood. I was at gourmet Glatt aisle 9 and kosher west. Flanken roast is $29.99/lb, and one three bone roast is approx 5 lbs
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