Solutions to the tuition crisis

amother

↑ Seagreen

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 7:56 am

realtalk wrote:

My ideas only really work in town but

1% sales tax added in Jewish owned luxury stores (restaurants, high end home goods, etc) Obviously it's not a legal requirement but companies can be incentivized because they'll get the charity tax write off. Vaad could also technically make it a requirement for heksherim in restaurants.

Optional round up at checkouts like they have in non Jewish stores

Funds are distributed to all schools based on amount of students, not a separate income based scholarship fund

I like these ideas, though I don’t think it would be enough, it’s a start

amother

↑ NeonGreen

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 7:58 am

amother Gold wrote:

We need to All apply to public schools they would then have to give us all vouchers they wouldn’t have where to put thosanda of kids. That’s the only way the government will pay. It cost them more money for each child in public school then vouchers. We are entitled to a free education in America. We should all go and get Heimish teachers in there. And after school have a few hours of yiddish subjects. No one wants to hear it but if that’s what u can afford then that’s what we should do

The public schools would be thrilled, because they get money based on enrollment numbers. They'd be able to open new schools, so actually there would be less of a chance of getting vouchers because numbers would show how many students they are servicing, also scores would probably sky rocket in those schools and the voucher thing is based on failing schools with low scores. I'm not sure how you'd arrange for heimish teachers, either. You have no say in who they hire, or who your child's teachers are, not to mention the materials and curriculum used.

amother

Lightgray

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 8:48 am

amother Fuchsia wrote:

Yeah this is a big no. You cant dictate how the wealthy spend their tzedakah. The system you propose is socialism and all it does is encourage people to work less earn less.
The only idea I have is that those getting tuition breaks where one parent is not working full time needs to provide a service to the yeshiva. For example erev yom kippur when I need to work to pay for those children who get breaks those parents can help by watching my kid. Or the week before pesach etc. those parents not working need to ease the load off the parents working. Or give out the lunch or proctor exams etc so the school doesnt have to hire people to do that

Often parents who don’t work it’s because they have babys at home - how are they supposed to serve lunch or proctor with a toddler underfoot? Or even watch everyone else’s kids in addition to their own?

If we’re talking about parents who do have all their kids in school already, and are choosing to stay home still, often the schools do have them help out.

But a mother who works 9-3 is officially not working full time, but also doesn’t have any spare time to donate, because that’s basically all the school hours. You can’t mandate that people hire babysitters to donate their time- because the whole point is they don’t have money to spare.

amother

↑ Mistyrose

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 9:03 am

amother Poppy wrote:

It's taxing the people already buying luxuries, not the people looking for the cheapest deal. And 1% is a drop in the bucket

Still doesn't matter. Who defines what's a luxury and it will eventually trickle down to questionable items.

Most of the problems we have with such laws and rules is the outgrowth of them, and not the initiation. It starts off with good intentions and limits, but it almost always spirals out of control. It's a low hanging fruit people grab on to when there is a challenge. It's much easier implementing such band-aids instead of tackling the root cause.

And in almost all cases, the band-aids eventually bleed thru. So all such stuff will accomplish is push the ball down the road, and it will be a much large problem down the road.

Fix our society. Fix our lifestyles. Don't add more burdens to it.

amother

Peru ↓

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 9:08 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

I only see this maybe working for a true community type day school. Not for privately owned ones.

This is 1000% the reason why any of the proposed solutions simply are fantasies and don't work.

The "crisis" doesn't really exist in places where there is actually a "community" which has a "community" school.

To a great extent it doesn't exist for Chassidish schools because there is a "community" which supports the schools of their community.

It also doesn't seem to exist - at least to the same extent - in smaller communities where there are one or two schools and everyone who lives in the community sends to the school and so you might have a broad range of people. And everyone is guaranteed a spot in the schools.

How could you possibly get people to agree to pay for schools that they can't get into?

Not to mention the impossibility of getting people to pay a "tax" - how would you enforce it? How would you allocate the money? Who would oversee that the money is spent appropriately? Would you require certain "standards" of schools.

amother

Tuberose

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 9:23 am

I would like to define what is meant by the phrase "tuition crisis" before we can discuss ideas.

I read through the Mishpacha article - the crisis they were referring to was that the schools have a budget deficit. They did not define it the way I would have defined it, from my perspective - that tuition is unaffordable for many of us.

Once I realized they are not talking to me - I am not wealthy enough to donate, pay full tuition, or even reach deeper into my pocket - I lost interest.

The solutions are going to have to be getting better fundraisers for the schools, appealing to wealthier parents to dig deeper into their pockets, and cutting costs. Just like the rest of us do when we have a budget deficit- increase income, cut costs.

I don't think they even proposed a community tax because they know it's never going to work. Different versions of this idea have been floated around over the years, but they never pan out. Our communities are too big and too diverse for a central fund to work.

What is probably going to need to happen is for the schools to start aggressively fundraising. Aderei Torah had a massive publicity campaign with an enormous amount of advertising and outreach plus the Rosh Yeshivas were behind it. If we make funding our schools a priority in the same way, and we start aggressively fundraising the same way, likely the funding will come.

It's just a matter of time for them to realise that this needs to happen. And until they decide this, I'm not holding my breath. There's really no other solution that's going to work, but it has to be acknowledged.

amother

Melon

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 12:22 pm

amother Tuberose wrote:

I think another contributor to the tuition crisis (and I hope I’m wrong and this is just an outsiders perspective) is when Torah umesorah raised the morah salaries. I’m not 100% sure but I think they gave the schools some money and told them that the schools would have to come up with the money after a year or two. Now the schools have to come up with more money and there isn’t so much more to go around because of inflation. Where I live it appears to me that the schools who signed up for the Torah umesorah program are having a hard time. The schools that didn’t sign up still raised salaries by a lot but they have more wiggle room.

amother

Lime

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 1:49 pm

amother Melon wrote:

100% agree.

In fact when I saw the original campaign and I saw that they were only agreeing to fund the raises for one to two years I remember turning to my husband and saying this is going to blow back really bad and people are going to see the difference in their tuition.

I don't know exact numbers, but I think the average raise was about $10,000 over 2 or 3 years. I'm sure they also raised the English teachers.

If it's abt 15k per teacher, avg class size 25 kids, right there that's $600 extra minimum just to cover the raise. And that's before all the addition of the extra cost schools are facing due to inflation.

amother

Hunter

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 1:53 pm

amother Carnation wrote:

I can't believe someone would seriously suggest less financially stable moms go watch everyone's kids in school on erev yomtov.
The amount of either deep resentment or hate for fellow Jewish women on Erev Yom Kippur- scary!

I know a school where parents who want a scholarship have to volunteer x amount of hours and that $ goes to tuition. In some ways it was good (never had a substituting problem and lots of supervision like in the lunchroom or at recess giving teachers breaks) but when parents were being asked to come in and clean toilets it got way out of hand

amother

↑ Peru

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 2:12 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

It's taxing the people already buying luxuries, not the people looking for the cheapest deal. And 1% is a drop in the bucket

Wealthy people try to avoid paying sales taxes. Very Happy

Why would they patronize a shop and pay more when they could just donate directly to whatever they wanted.

I would be extremely suspicious of paying more to a store who would then pay it over to a central body which would then allocate in some manner which I might not like. Even assuming everyone in this chain were honestly it adds significant costs to administer.

In terms of tuition costs, would parents want to send their children to a school which had 40 students in a classroom and had teachers which were poorly educated willing to work for minimum wage?

amother

Heather

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 10:08 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

A percentage of income is really not fair. First of all why should someone with 1 kid (who has no $ because in debt from fertility treatments but on paper makes a good salary ) pay the same amount as someone with 10 kids and similarly the rich would just make their own schools if they would be required to subsidize everyone else education

Because you won't be paying for your one child. You would be paying less than tuition (probably something like 5% of income, both tax and maaser deductible) so that your child, your grandchildren IYH, your nieces and nephews, your neighbors, and all Jewish children can go to school. So that your child's classmates will be coming from stronger homes without the insane stress levels tuition causes. So that your child's teachers and principals will be less pressured.

Because this amount would be spread out to everyone (not just people with kids in school) and every year (not only when you have young children).

I know that people say that this plan is unworkable, but it really would help everyone.

(There would probably be an additional tuition amount over this for the years your kids are actually in school, but this would probably make that amount actually affordable.)

↑ farm

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 2:40 am

amother Amber wrote:

I don’t think your assumptions are true. The ones paying big money to these causes are already paying full tuition. The $18 the rest of us give when pressured is not going to solve the tuition problem.

Also, I don’t know where you live but the schools in my community definitely have their students collecting money for them as many times a year as possible.

Agree with you about seminary though.

I totally disagree. The attitude is of ‘only $18’ speaks to the whole approach of not being מדקדק with money. Yes, if someone is not paying full tuition, every extra $18 should go to the school and not to adopt a kollel. Why are you pressured to give to adopt a kollel? Why do our shul rabbis and presidents allow this campaign to target all shul members when they well know plenty of those members owe tuition? As I said, it proves that our society as a whole does not prioritize tuition. So then why should we?

amother

↑ Amber

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 3:10 am

farm wrote:

First of all, you’re preaching to the choir. I rarely give to any of these “trending” causes and I was very turned off by the mass collections last year for EY yungeleit while local schools were collapsing from financial strain.

But I still think this isn’t feasible for several reasons:

1. Most struggling parents who owe tuition aren’t giving huge amounts to tzedaka. There was ONE major event last year where everyone was majorly pressured to give and that’s all. It doesn’t happen every day, and even when it does, not everyone gives at all, and many give just a bit.

2. The real gvirim who give big bucks to these and other causes are already paying full tuition. Yes, if they gave the bulk of their tzedaka, or even just their maaser to our schools, it can help solve the crisis, but guess what? Most of them don’t want to. You know why? Because they see our schools as businesses, and poorly managed ones at that. Why should they support a business, especially one that seems to not know how to handle its finances?

3. Not everyone considers tuition to be a halachic form of tzedaka/maaser.

4. We need every organization in klal Yisroel. I agree that the money should primarily stay in our communities, but we do need those funds! Organizations like Tomchei Shabbos, RCCS etc are maxed out and have enormous budgets. We can’t just take away their donations and direct it to our schools or they’d collapse, and that would be devastating to our communities.

5. People like to, and have a right to, choose where to give their tzedaka. Many people have hakaras hatov to organizations that helped them in the past and it’s their right to choose to give them their maaser or tzedaka.