S/O Torani Merkaz community

amother

OP ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:36 pm

Help!

I've never felt so ignorant.

Reading through OPs thread I'm hearing all sorts of different lingo that I am unfamiliar with and would love someone with more understanding to define the different "Frum" circles in Israel.

How would you describe the Daati Leumi, Chardal, Torani communities - what are the nuances that define what criteria makes them fall into different categories. How is the Chareidi crowd broken down? What other circles are there that I'm not even familiar with?

It's like a whole new language to me.

I'd describe myself as JPF, Yeshiva aligned, Agudah crowd, Americanized.

How do the Israeli sects compare to what I am familiar with here in the USA; MO left wing, MO right wing, JPF, Yeshivah, Yeshiva like, middle of the road etc, Yeshivish, Litvish, Heimish etc?!

I would love to know what crowd I'd fit into. I would love to make Aliyah, but truly, I don't think the crowd I am looking for exists.

juggling ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:55 pm

Just as in America these terms means different things to different people, so, too, in Israel. But I will try.

Dati Lite is people who keep shabbat and a basic religious lifestyle, but it's not their main focus and they may cut some corners halachikally.

DL torani is people who are hashkafikally DL but their halachik observance and torah-based approach is a huge focus in their lives.

Chardal is an interesting type that doesn't have a parallel in America. On issues of Zionism their hashkafa is DL but on issues of secular culture and education their hashkafa is charedi.

The specific reference to Merkaz is the yeshiva merkaz Harav. As the different yeshivot do have different nuances in their approaches, people may choose to align with a community that affiliates broadly with the approach of a specific yeshiva.

Elfrida

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:05 pm

juggling wrote:

The specific reference to Merkaz is the yeshiva merkaz Harav. As the different yeshivot do have different nuances in their approaches, people may choose to align with a community that affiliates broadly with the approach of a specific yeshiva.

While this can be true, the references in that thread seem to be about living in the merkaz, in the centre of the country, not about any hashkafa.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:23 pm

juggling wrote:

Thank you. I think you did a great job breaking it down.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:30 pm

Are there nuances in the Chareidi world?

For example, my kids go to Yeshivish/BY. My husband works FT, has Chavrusas during the day and learns at night. He wears a hat on Shabbos and white shirts (only Bec it is the standard norm where we live, he'd otherwise wear colored).

I cover my hair with a wig - I'll wear band falls and what not but don't expose hair. I dress with it but within the confines of Tznius. I've lost interest in secular movies/books/music... My kids are still relatively young and don't watch much if anything.

I'm really trying to get a feel of the different nuisances in Israeli society to understand where I would fit best.

I could see myself perhaps aligning with Chardal but don't really have much appreciation for the Zionism which seems to be a major focus. My husband does strongly believe in Yishuv E"Y and believes that is where we should all ideally be living.

LovesHashem

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:34 pm

amother OP wrote:

There's nuances everywhere. This sounds like. You'd fit into a BY and the chareidi world. Why don't you call yourself yeshivish in the US?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:42 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

There's nuances everywhere. This sounds like. You'd fit into a BY and the chareidi world. Why don't you call yourself yeshivish in the US?

Like one IMA wrote previously everyone has different criteria of what different terminology means to them....

I don't fit into the Yeshivish category, but I did define myself as Yeshiva aligned ...

To me Yeshivish means heavy duty super greasy... This is not to lump sum everyone into one category in any negative way, it's just my definition; husband learns in yeshiva all day, wife works at some job until 2 - likely has some masters degree that she earned through Sarah Shnerer, Maalot or the like... Dresses a certain way...

.....all this not me

If anyway understands how I am trying to describe myself without jumping to a definitive narrow minded view of a specific category, please help me understand where I would possibly fit in the Israeli Frum world.

amother

Mauve

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

I am like you and think I belong in open chareidi.

amother

Beige

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:59 pm

amother OP wrote:

I think you'd fit into a chareidi environment but one with Anglos so it's more open /more fathers work/people have internet and smart phones.

We are similar to what you've described although maybe more open as my husband does listen to secular music, we'll watch Netflix /YouTube...

We send to chareidi schools that are more to the right than us in Jerusalem. I do think about it often if we can take out kids out of the system but there isn't really a school system here for JPF. Maybe for boys beit ramban but I don't know if thata chareidi. The chareidi boys schools don't teach English and the limudei chol is generally not super strong.

I think somewhere like RBS does have more nuance in the schools (there are chareidi schools that don't give parents issues for smart phones, long sheitals etc). I don't know specific schools but it's just the impression I get from speaking to people that you can find your niche there more.

Do you have friends that are similar to you that you can ask that live here?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 11:05 pm

My husband has many friends in Israel but he has veered more to the right and they to the left over time ... most of his friends align somewhere within the DL to Chardal crowd.

He has friends in RBS but I don't feel that it's where we would quite fit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there really is still no JPF community in Israel for the typical American Frum family as of yet.

We watch YouTube and the like, but it's definitely not a focus.

English and secular studies are important to me .

We definitely align with a strong Torah community.

amother

Brown

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 11:14 pm

amother OP wrote:

RBS is FULL of people like this.

DrMom ↓

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 12:11 am

amother OP wrote:

To me Yeshivish means heavy duty super greasy... This is not to lump sum everyone into one category in any negative way, it's just my definition; husband learns in yeshiva all day, wife works at some job until 2 - likely has some masters degree that she earned through Sarah Shnerer, Maalot or the like... Dresses a certain way...

.....all this not me

If anyway understands how I am trying to describe myself without jumping to a definitive narrow minded view of a specific category, please help me understand where I would possibly fit in the Israeli Frum world.

Is this a typo, or does "greasy" mean something other than "covered with or resembling an oily substance?"

zebra111

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 12:13 am

This sounds like ud appreciate chareidi lite/modern chareidi/open chareidi.
The schools the kids go to are called mamach (mamlachti chareidi) and the aim there is high level secular with bais yaakov level kodesh. Obviously u cant have all worlds so in practise it may be a little less bais yaakovy , but that is the aim.
The mamach talmud torahs teach secular subjects too.
Parents are a mix of white and coloured shirts, some are people who grew uo chareidi and are moving away a bit, some are people who didnt grow up chareidi but are going more in that direction. The school bags etc may have cartoon characters etc, so there is an element of secular culture but the families dont embrace it as an ערך.

Communities that may fit, rbs for sure, shaarei chesed in jerusalem, I think petach tikva has mamach schools, ramat givat ze'ev was built with this kind of community in mind..

Good luck!

↑ DrMom

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 12:26 am

amother OP wrote:

I think the definition of a "typical American frum family" will vary from person to person. If you are looking for a community that is an exact clone of wherever you are in the US, you will probably be disappointed.

As you explore aliyah, I'd advise you to be open-minded.

Think about what aspects of your life (mode of dress, DH's employment, etc.) you value, what is non-negotiable, and where you can be flexible.

And think about how homogenous you need your surrounding community to be with respect to each of these parameters. If you cover your hair a certain way, do you need a community where all married women cover in that way? Is it okay if some do not cover at all? Is it okay if your particular circle of friends is more homogeneous, but you are located in a more heterogeneous town, or do you want a place where the entire location is more homogeneous (like a yishuv where all residents share a common hashkafa)?