Can’t live on this anymore

amother

↑ Brunette ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 7:01 am

amother Dahlia wrote:

60k in savings in less than a year is a dream
Don’t worry so much lol
You’re not rich but ur very comfortable in my opinion

BH! I feel very comfortable. Never said I’m struggling right now. I said that it’s scary to think that in the next 5-10 years our expenses will far surpass income if nothing changes.

amother

↑ Brunette ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 7:01 am

amother Lightpink wrote:

...lots,of extras here to cut back.
These,expenses,shouldn't be so high each month especially not if you having trouble getting by

Of course, but BH we aren’t having trouble getting by, we save a lot, if we needed to cut back we would.

amother

↑ Sage ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 7:20 am

amother NeonPink wrote:

We make $500,000 a year with 3 kids . Two teens and 1 elementary school and although we live comfortably it’s not like we are swimming in dough . At all.

Then you have a problem somewhere, either housing or tuition. That's an insane amount of money most people can't even dream of, it's so out of our reach.

amother

↑ Brunette ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 8:25 am

amother Sage wrote:

Then you have a problem somewhere, either housing or tuition. That's an insane amount of money most people can't even dream of, it's so out of our reach.

Why are you assuming she must have a problem? She didn’t say she’s pinching pennies, she said she’s not “swimming in money”. I assume that means she’s able to comfortably cover all of needs and most wants, but she can’t just buy an apartment in Israel if she decided she wants to, she can’t afford to dedicate a Sefer Torah on a whim, she can’t splurge $30k on a pesach hotel, she’s not buying a $10k wig every year, etc.

Of course I don’t know her expenses but let’s assume.

$500,000 pre tax income
$350,000 post tax income (30% tax rate)

Annual Expenses:
$60k mortgage
$60k tuition
$30k groceries
$36k health/dental
$12k cleaning help
$35k maaser
$12k car payments
$12k life/car/home insurance
$12k utilities
$6k home maintenance
$10k clothing
$10k summer camp
$5k vacation

That’s already $300k. That leaves $50k for EVERYTHING else, plus saving for simchas and retirement. So do you see how it’s possible to be comfortable on $500k but not swimming in money?

amother

Myrtle

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 8:41 am

amother NeonPink wrote:

We make $500,000 a year with 3 kids . Two teens and 1 elementary school and although we live comfortably it’s not like we are swimming in dough . At all.

I’ll bet the Imamother making 1.1 million a year says the same thing: we’re comfortable but if we were pulling in 3 mil a year then we’d really be rich!

amother

↑ Sage ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 8:48 am

amother Brunette wrote:

If you can afford a 5K vacation every year and 10K in camps, then yes, you are swimming in money.

You can't understand this because you already said you make 300K/annual. But you realize most of us, even middle class with okay salaries, are crippled by medical bills and don't have built in money to pay for simchas. Let alone take vacations or pay off camp bills. We make 150K combined, 3 kids, most expensive state in the country, and I feel lucky that we have all the basics of living covered.

justforfun87

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 8:58 am

amother Myrtle wrote:

I’ll bet the Imamother making 1.1 million a year says the same thing: we’re comfortable but if we were pulling in 3 mil a year then we’d really be rich!

I agree with this. Most people create a living standard with their income so it doesn't feel excessive to them. I can't even comprehend how people live with a smaller salary then what we have and of course I think we don't spend a lot. Someone looking at my life choices may be able to clearly see where to cut out expenses.

amother

↑ Brunette ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 9:22 am

amother Sage wrote:

Of course I can understand this. I didn’t always make $300k. My point is, you just able to cover basics, she is also able to cover extras, or things that used to be considered the norm until inflation hit. Sending 3 kids to sleep away camp (10k) is NOT considered a major luxury in the frum world. There are tzedaka organizations for it because so many consider it a necessity. Neither is taking 1 vacation a year. Sure her vacation is $5k, not $1k, but that’s still not a $15k annual Israel family vacation.

Your $150k in the frum world places you lower middle class/poor depending on family size and where you live. Her $500k in the frum world with a small family makes her comfortably upper middle class, but not more than that. With proper restraint and saving she will be able to pay for her kids weddings without borrowing money. But she won’t be able to buy them houses or even give very large down payment assistance.

amother

↑ Lightpink

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 9:38 am

amother Sage wrote:

Then you have a problem somewhere, either housing or tuition. That's an insane amount of money most people can't even dream of, it's so out of our reach.

What's the problem?
She has chosen a lifestyle with high expenses that bh she can afford. If people live on a high spending bracket even if it is considered "normal " in the community they won't be "rolling in dough " they will be spending their income to meet their lifestyle.

amother

Obsidian

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 9:57 am

amother Brunette wrote:

But she won’t be able to buy them houses or even give very large down payment assistance.

I'm honestly taken aback that this would be considered the norm or even be an expectation that one will be able to do so. Unless someone is fabulously wealthy (like millionaire+ wealthy) that's out of reach for not only the middle class, but upper middle class too. And it's not a sign of someone who is struggling, either.

amother

↑ Brunette

Wed, Oct 02 2024, 10:00 am

amother Obsidian wrote:

Yes that’s exactly my point. There were many posters astounded that a $500k salary doesn’t automatically equal “swimming in money”. I was explaining why their assumptions were incorrect.

amother

↑ Sage ↓

Sat, Oct 05 2024, 9:14 pm

amother Brunette wrote:

Sorry, but the "frum world" is still part of the real world, and an annual vacation is not a necessity, no matter who you are, frum or not. Sleepaway camp is not a necessity. These aren't prescribed by halakha. You know what? Food and shelter are necessities. Your posts are so tone deaf, very out of touch with reality.

amother

↑ Sage ↓

Sat, Oct 05 2024, 9:17 pm

amother Brunette wrote:

Yes that’s exactly my point. There were many posters astounded that a $500k salary doesn’t automatically equal “swimming in money”. I was explaining why their assumptions were incorrect.

You're just not correct about this. Making 500K is swimming in money, no matter who you are or what your family size. It just is. Most people in this country do not make that much money. Just because she chooses to live an expensive frum life, it doesn't mean she isn't swimming in money. It's offensive for both her and you to act as though these huge incomes are just "covering basics with a few extras." It's gross to keep saying vacations and camps are necessities when there are mothers on this forum who cannot pay for food or medicine or coats for their children. I just find it so incredibly disgusting.

amother

↑ Sage

Sat, Oct 05 2024, 9:19 pm

amother Lightpink wrote:

The problem is I don't want to hear rich people whine about how they aren't making it in threads started by people making so much less. It's gross that you think this kind of spending should be seen as normal.

amother

Bottlebrush

Sat, Oct 05 2024, 9:48 pm

We're on programs and we don't go on any vacations, not even a "measly" 1k one. We don't have any cleaning help. No restaurant line item in the budget at all. The reduced tuition that we pay amounts to almost half our income. I don't know where someone got the idea that there's help for camps, because there isn't anything amounting to more than a couple hundred dollars.
Us "program" people live in tiny rentals, wear old clothes, and we manage. Our kids have major complexes. We go stir-crazy from never leaving our daled amos. There's mold allergies, constant colds, and more due to our lovely living quarters. And guess what, that's life in the have-nots lane. Don't romanticize it. We're not a cute young couple with a baby and a toddler on WIC anymore. There's not so much for you to envy here.