What bothers me about seminaries

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling -> Seminary Info

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View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Hashem_Yaazor

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 4:09 am

imaima wrote:

So do you suggest no appreciation?

Let them offer instead to wash the dishes after the meal...

↑ Elfrida ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 4:14 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

True, but it just brings the point home a bit better. My shabbos menu at times could really be very simple like sushi and salad for shabbos day or a large salad, steaks and string beans for friday night - and thats it.
There is no way I can serve such a meal when sem girls come.
I guess a family that has a more traditional meal week after week every shabbos would not have to adapt as much, but I do.

If you feel that you have to be more elaborate, go ahead, but most seminary girls would be quite happy with those menus. I've heard them talking about how glad they were not to have been served chulent again!

↑ imaima ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 4:25 am

Elfrida wrote:

They might not be.
I have seen enough entitled girls. They can sit at the shabbos table and loudly proclaim that they like yoghurt more

↑ Elfrida ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 4:55 am

Some girls will not be satisfied by anything g that differs more than a hair from what they are used to at home. Those are the ones you don't invite back.

amother

↑ Blush ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 5:06 am

amother Gold wrote:

I've lived in Israel for many years by now, and from the first week practically, I've felt the pressure of asking to be hosted by seminary girls.
My husband is very introverted and does not like chatting with girls at the table. We are on a tight budget. We have very, very little space. It's a big strain. How do I EXPLAIN this to naive clueless young girls who are just desperate for somewhere to eat?

How is this acceptable?
Why do I need to feel guilty for putting my husband and our family's basic needs first? It's worse when the girl says her grandmother knows my mother , and another girl says she's my father's cousin? And then my clueless mother ( with an 8 bedroom house ) wonders why I said no.

I especially resent the fact that ultimately these desperate girls are usually way more well off than we are, (or at least can somehow afford seminary fees ) and I feel judged and embarrassed at my humble ability to host.

To the poster who said she learned what kind of shabbos table she wanted and didn't want from being hosted - well, do you think it feels good to have young girls decide they do or DON'T want a home like yours ? Do you also want to be a spectacle, open for judgement and discussion ?

And I agree, at the very least , the seminary should pay for the cost of the food. But the whole system is unacceptable.

I could not agree with this more. In my case I am more introverted than my husband but basically the same thing.

I feel like I want to be hospitable, is I say yes. But I feel bad because I KNOW I can't offer comfortable accommodations. We have no space--the only way I can have the girls NOT encounter my family's laundry (either clean or dirty) is by doing laundry into the afternoon on Friday which I don't really have time to do while also cooking nicer meals than I might make for just my family. Yes the bathroom the girls will be using will also be used be the one that my husband and I use and if someone snoops, they will find my diaphragm, pregnancy tests, etc. Unless I am fanatical about shutting doors (and even if I am--I have kids), they will see into my and my husband's bedroom. And no we have no a/c in our bedrooms. I hate the feeling like I am being forced to bring these American girls into my home who probably have never lived like this, and yes on some level I will probably be judged for some aspect of how we are living. Also with the no a/c--when there are guests I feel like I have to close my bedroom door when sleeping, which makes it really airless and I don't sleep well. So no I don't want to have sleepover guess, but I feel like just saying no comes across as ungracious.

When we lived in the U.S., we had a big house with a dedicated guest room with it's own bathroom. And cleaning help twice a week. So I know what it feels like to welcome guests and to really feel that I'm happy to have them, I'm cooking etc. anyway (okay, that probably was still always a lie to some extent, but not as much as it is now), this is no skin off my back. This is not the same thing at all. It's a major difference to my life preparing and while they are in my house.

Oh and I have to move mattresses, do an extra load of laundry for linen, etc. (Not to mention if I want to move them into a kids' room that's messy--that means now I have to clean the room even though it could have skated by for another week... and probably still be judged for living with more mess than is comfortable.)

amother

↑ DarkViolet

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 5:08 am

amother Blush wrote:

I could not agree with this more. In my case I am more introverted than my husband but basically the same thing.

I feel like I want to be hospitable, is I say yes. But I feel bad because I KNOW I can't offer comfortable accommodations. We have no space--the only way I can have the girls NOT encounter my family's laundry (either clean or dirty) is by doing laundry into the afternoon on Friday which I don't really have time to do while also cooking nicer meals than I might make for just my family. Yes the bathroom the girls will be using will also be used be the one that my husband and I use and if someone snoops, they will find my diaphragm, pregnancy tests, etc. Unless I am fanatical about shutting doors (and even if I am--I have kids), they will see into my and my husband's bedroom. And no we have no a/c in our bedrooms. I hate the feeling like I am being forced to bring these American girls into my home who probably have never lived like this, and yes on some level I will probably be judged for some aspect of how we are living. Also with the no a/c--when there are guests I feel like I have to close my bedroom door when sleeping, which makes it really airless and I don't sleep well. So no I don't want to have sleepover guess, but I feel like just saying no comes across as ungracious.

When we lived in the U.S., we had a big house with a dedicated guest room with it's own bathroom. And cleaning help twice a week. So I know what it feels like to welcome guests and to really feel that I'm happy to have them, I'm cooking etc. anyway, this is no skin off my back. This is not the same thing at all. It's a major difference to my life preparing and while they are in my house.

Oh and I have to move mattresses, do an extra load of laundry for linen, etc. (Not to mention if I want to move them into a kids' room that's messy--that means now I have to clean the room even though it could have skated by for another week... and probably still be judged for living with more mess than is comfortable.)

Exactly, I can relate to all of this.

amother

↑ Blush ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 5:16 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

Omg. This is my pet peeve. I am a normal person. I did not sign up to be chavaya of the week or part of your seminary learning experience. I am a normal young mom with young kids of all shapes and sizes with a normal husband and normal life pressures. I work full time and live in a normal Israeli apartment and I dont appreciate thinking that my every move is being dissected.

Yes exactly!!! This is my real life. And I never asked to be in this position.

amother

DarkYellow ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 5:41 am

I was in seminary 25 years ago. Even with 1st cousins in Israel, I can't exactly go to them every week.
I ended up buying myself shabbos food and eating in my dorm. It was against the rules and I had to write down fake places on the list they passed around to make sure we'll be going to a proper shabbos meal but I got away with it.
Since then I heard that my sem does make meals every week for the girls, not sure about yomtov.

I cannot imagine the strain right now on families with the war going on.

Dear seminaries:
Shabbos and yomtov is supposed to be the highlight of our lives. This is a time to teach girls the practical and inspirational how's and why's, not to abandon them to their own resources. These would be critical lessons for young women who will soon start their own families. We cannot rely on the homes our girls come from to teach them everything they need to know. If seminary is about teaching girls to take their place as the next generation of frum mothers, please don't neglect the critical lessons of experiencing a true shabbos and yomtov.

amother

↑ Charcoal

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 5:48 am

imaima wrote:

This should be a part of the allowance and parents should take it into account when sending their child and giving them spending money.
If all of it is „chinuch“ and „spiritual“ then gifting the hosts shouldn’t be where you cut corners! So you found several thousands to pay for seminary and tickets and all the right brand clothes and brands but the 10 dollar wine bottle is the part that will break your bank?! To show appreciation to people who as shown above live very modestly and are hardly affording the hosting?

You’re assuming that anyone who attends seminary has a lot of money to spare. My parents really struggled to pay. They wouldn’t have sent me. I wanted to go to seminary. The agreement was that they paid the air fare and tuition but all spending money was from my own bank account. I wasn’t the only one. There were girls in my school that were also using their own money and on a very tight budget. Buying the gift is the right thing to do but it was a stressful expense and process to take care of almost every week in order to do something we weren’t comfortable doing to begin with.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:18 am

Wow.. this is such a sad thread to read..
I’ve never been to seminary- my mom was divorced and couldn’t afford it, I knew not to put more strain on her so I convinced her I don’t want to go. But I remember 12th grade..every girl was going to Israel and would talk about it, I just sat aside thinking I’m missing out. But reading this made me so sad..I would hate to impose on other families and beg for a place to stay. It sucks for both parties honestly
And I am really surprised sem doesn’t provide meals with the amount of down payment they take from parents..

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:24 am

I think all seminaries should make a nice Shabbos and Yom Tov for the girls every Shabbos and Yom Tov. Of course, girls should have the option of going to friends or relatives for Shabbos but only if they want to and their hosts are truly happy to have them.

amother

Geranium

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:33 am

I never went to Israel seminary, nor my daughters. I don't want to spend that amount of money on the 'chavaya'. I keep thinking of that spoof barbie clip where they put a barbie doll in all the places a summary student would go.
I went local, and so did my girls. And they each found a shidduch beautifully without having been to Israel seminary, and manage kollel life in israel just fine.
For those who say that going to Israel doesn't mean you have spare funds for all the extras like candy platters ... ummm, factor that in, just like you factor in flights. We all know the amount of extras is astronomical, so go prepared, or don't go.

↑ imaima ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:35 am

amother Charcoal wrote:

Yes
The system is at fault
Aren’t families on a budget too? Isn’t hosting also stressful?

amother

Peach

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:41 am

I don't get it. At this point most sems offer shabbos meals either in the dorm or to be set up at local families. Yet it seems that people are saying that their daughters don't want to join because it's the "nebby choice" and somehow it's the seminary system's fault?

What more should they do? They are offering the meals & the girls are choosing not to take part in them. Should they be forced to?

↑ notshanarishona

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:44 am

amother Peach wrote:

Being set up at local families is exactly the problem. The seminary should be hosting every Shabbos, not having the girls go to complete strangers who are doing their chessed for the day.

↑ imaima ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 7:02 am

amother Peach wrote:

Setting up in families is the problem

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 7:11 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

So for example, this year when sukkot is a three day chag for the sem girls, your would have them making kiddush on vanilla milkshakes? Because that is what we will be having motzie chag. And the next day, Friday, There is another meal they need to eat while my family might be grabbing yogurts and nuts from the fridge while they peel potatoes for the cholent.
And what about Pesach when they need a whole 'nother seder.
I have happily hosted these girls for two and three day chagim. We are a fun and chilled home and my own daughters have kept them company through the second meals and sedarim but of course it entails a bit more thought and food and its not just about the financials.

We were talking about shabbat. Can't Believe It

Of course if they need a second day chag, we use leftovers from the chag. Im going to make a bit more than we would have needed. Thats all.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 7:12 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

Why ever not? What is so bad about serving exactly what you would serve for your family?

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 7:14 am

imaima wrote:

They might not be.
I have seen enough entitled girls. They can sit at the shabbos table and loudly proclaim that they like yoghurt more

So let them. Who cares? Any sem girls that Ive had for shabbat have always helped to clear the table, always said everything was delicious and been good at conversing with us. But of course if the girls are entitled and dont like that is served, thats fine too. They are guests in YOUR home.

Ruchel

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 7:17 am

You like yogurt more? Nice, my toddler too

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