What bothers me about seminaries

↑ Ruchi

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 11:42 pm

imaima wrote:

This should be a part of the allowance and parents should take it into account when sending their child and giving them spending money.
If all of it is „chinuch“ and „spiritual“ then gifting the hosts shouldn’t be where you cut corners! So you found several thousands to pay for seminary and tickets and all the right brand clothes and brands but the 10 dollar wine bottle is the part that will break your bank?! To show appreciation to people who as shown above live very modestly and are hardly affording the hosting?

I am sure that the non affordable hosts would much prefer cash anytime over a bottle of wine or a candy platter.
Cash can be given with a thank you note and suggestion that they "treat themselves " ...

amother

↑ DarkViolet ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 1:24 am

Ruchi wrote:

And most of us don't have cleaning help. So those nicely made beds with clean linen in that small room is all the hostess.

↑ Elfrida ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 1:25 am

imaima wrote:

The thing is, a lot of girls don't get an allowance from.their parents for spending money. Those girls have saved their babysitting money and whatever else they earned for the past few years for their spending money during seminary.

A year or two ago I was on the bus sitting behind some seminary girls. They had just been out buying Shabbos gifts, and were looking at their candy platters. One of them was wondering aloud whether they really had to do this every week?

For girls who have not been used to dealing with money, and are now on a limited budget, and are living in a foreign country where they are not family with shops and prices, 40₪ for a small candy platter can add up very quickly. Especially at this time of year, with so many extra meals over the chagim. (Tne seminary girls like to buy the bigger ones, at least at the beginning of the year, which can cost upwards of 100₪.)

amother

↑ DarkViolet ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 1:32 am

Elfrida wrote:

Its insanity all around. I don't need a candy platter, in fact I despise the candy platter, but I 100% need the girls to appreciate and acknowledge that as strapped as they are their hostess (and hostesses kids) are probably going out of their comfort zone X10 more. How else do you suggest they should do that? I agree that is insane that they have to beg when they a perfectly fine bed and meals back home but they aren't home.

↑ imaima ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 1:55 am

Elfrida wrote:

So do you suggest no appreciation?

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 2:02 am

amother Carnation wrote:

Not what she said about sem, the general tone, Shabbos and not Shabbat etc. I could be wrong but that was the impression I got.

But now that you brought it up, I'm curious: in your circles, DO people complain about the boys having to find places to go?

I live in israel. The only time I see this conversation is here on this site.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 2:05 am

amother PlumPink wrote:

I hate every part of this system, from every facet. From the shnorring your way into the door, to taking along friends when people can barely host just one of you (!), to the seminaries not compensating the hosts, every bit makes me throw up.
DD was in seminary last year. I warned her a million times before she applied that I don’t want to hear “I don’t have a place to go” because of this ridiculous system. She said “I’ll be fine, everyone does it” and by nature she’s outgoing so she thought it would work. It didn’t. We are extremely close and spoke multiple times a day, but the one and only time I yelled at her over the ocean was when she cried about not having where to go for Shabbos. I. Didn’t. Want. To. Hear. It. This sem does have a rotation of girls staying in mandatorily so there’s a nice Shabbos if someone doesn’t have where to go, but the girls feel like failures and nerds if they didn’t find a place to go.

And this is after paying more than 30K for the year (tickets included). I’m so disillusioned by the seminary system.

Why is it a thing from americans, to think ir believe that all israelis cant ever afford to have guests? Yrs, there are those who are poor. But over all, please dont think all frum israeli families cant financially host.

↑ Elfrida ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 2:07 am

imaima wrote:

So do you suggest no appreciation?

No, but I am.saying that this often comes out of the girls own budget. Its not as simple as saying that her parents should budget for this when calculating her allowance.

In many cases the girl didn't calculate a budget. What she has, is the a cumulation of what she was able to save.

↑ imaima ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 2:35 am

Elfrida wrote:

Yes the parents should budget for this particular expense and the toiletries and clothes are covered by the girl.
They expect someone to feed their child each weekend so they should figure it out.
I have a child in Israel too and cover and encourage buying hostess gifts.

amother

Amaryllis

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 2:40 am

amother Almond wrote:

No seminary girls here for YT. Its officially too dangerous where I live.

Ive had some sem girls I really enjoyed (bachurim too) and some wow just wow!

Same boat here. I would tell OP to send her daughter to me for Yo"t but seminaries aren't allowing the girls up north now... one of our more frequent guests became my niece so that was really exciting!

amother

↑ DarkViolet ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 2:45 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I can financially swing it. But it adds up. I think most people in the US would express the same sentiment if this became a regular thing for young families week after week. Hosting girls means not making a simple shabbos of just salads chicken and rice. The spread has to be more elaborate then what my family needs. It means making enough so that you can serve to the center of the table and not plate the food. It means making sure you had the time to put up food for late friday so the girls can eat something even though your own kids might be fine with cereal on a friday afternoon. It means in addition to cooking and cleaning your regular shabbos stuff you have to set up a few more beds and move around kids and their things.
But in general many of the BY sems are actually sending the girls to the families that live in the area in yerushalyim which many times are very tight financially.
I have hosted boys and many times the Yeshiva would give a voucher for around 80 nis per guy. I thought that was a really nice and appreciative gesture.

↑ imaima ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 3:08 am

Ruchi wrote:

It’s an example
They can also regift the wine.

amother

↑ DarkViolet ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 3:27 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I live in israel. The only time I see this conversation is here on this site.

In which case you might not be part of the demographic that has this issue.
Where I hang this is park and neighborhood whatsapp chatter.

amother

↑ DarkViolet ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 3:33 am

For the sake of OP who's daughter is already here, I do want to say that if your daughter is polite, well mannered, shows appreciation, helps out and does not judge, interacts appropriately with my kids we are happy to have her and her friends when we say yes. We aren't sitting around kvetching all shabbos and actually enjoy her company. The venting is really directed at the seminary system that keeps on with this. I wish the parents would put an end to it.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 3:44 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

Im sorry but I dont cook any different from when I do or dont host. I may cook a big more, but thats all. You do not have to do more elaborate. Sorry but nope.
And Ive never put special food up for friday afternoon for sem girls. They can eat whatever everyone else eats.

amother

↑ DarkViolet ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 4:00 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

So for example, this year when sukkot is a three day chag for the sem girls, your would have them making kiddush on vanilla milkshakes? Because that is what we will be having motzie chag. And the next day, Friday, There is another meal they need to eat while my family might be grabbing yogurts and nuts from the fridge while they peel potatoes for the cholent.
And what about Pesach when they need a whole 'nother seder.
I have happily hosted these girls for two and three day chagim. We are a fun and chilled home and my own daughters have kept them company through the second meals and sedarim but of course it entails a bit more thought and food and its not just about the financials.

↑ Elfrida ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 4:04 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

Making a second day Yom Tov is not the same as making a more elaborate Shabbos, which is what you originally said.

Hosting girls means not making a simple shabbos of just salads chicken and rice. The spread has to be more elaborate then what my family needs. It means making enough so that you can serve to the center of the table and not plate the food. It means making sure you had the time to put up food for late friday so the girls can eat something even though your own kids might be fine with cereal on a friday afternoon.

amother

↑ DarkViolet ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 4:07 am

Elfrida wrote:

Making a second day Yom Tov is not the same as making a more elaborate Shabbos, which is what you originally said.

True, but it just brings the point home a bit better. My shabbos menu at times could really be very simple like sushi and salad for shabbos day or a large salad, steaks and string beans for friday night - and thats it.
There is no way I can serve such a meal when sem girls come.
I guess a family that has a more traditional meal week after week every shabbos would not have to adapt as much, but I do.