What bothers me about seminaries

↑ Ruchi ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:11 pm

amother Slateblue wrote:

Where my daughter is, it is. And we have plenty of family in Israel. She still chose a place that gives meals 7 days a week. I think the more chareidi seminaries give all meals and Yomim Tovim.

That's wonderful to hear!
Kudos to this sem.

amother

cornflower

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:12 pm

I sent to hadar over 15 years ago.
As long as 3 girls wanted to stay for seudos in the dorm, they made you a full seudah and a madricha would stay.
I stayed for seudos in the dorm at least50% of the time.
Felt bad shnorrring and felt bad taking from families that obviously couldn't afford having us.

Funny story, my friend lives in Israel with 6 kids in a standard 3 bedroom Israeli apartment. Her relative in America was pressuring her to host a family friend seminary girl for shabbos. My friend told her relative sorry, no it won't work.
My friend asked me, "where do you think this seminary girl will stay!? In my girls' room with three girls, on one of the pull outs of the bunkbed!? And seminary girls like bringing friends... No seminary girl would ever want to stay with us!!!'

gilamom

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:29 pm

You took the words right out of my mouth, anyone I know irl that reads this is going to think it's me because I've said it so often these past couple of weeks. It doesn't make sense for my daughter to have to plead with minor acquaintances for a place to stay for Rosh Hashana when she has a home right here in America and we would love to have her and it doesn't make sense that I'm missing out on the help, no she doesn't have to help me but she does and isn't that real life chinuch?!

fig

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:38 pm

Not that it’s affordable but the seminaries don’t even allow the girls to come home for
Sukkos if they want to. So an anxious, shy girl who would love to be with her family and has no where to go can’t even go home. It’s probably the only time in these girls lives that they have to spend holiday meals with strangers. Doesn’t make sense.

amother

Carnation ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:58 pm

amother Valerian wrote:

Let me be the dissenting opinion

A huge part of the year in Israel is about growing up and learning how to fend for yourself. No one has issues with the boys doing the same thing, find meals to join for shabbos and YT.

Sorry, it's just not comparable to boys.

Boys have their own dirahs, so by default, they always have somewhere to go. They may find a meal or two to eat out, but they don't HAVE to. Plus, eating by someone for one or two meals is just a few hours of hosting. That's not the same at all as hosting sleepover guests the entire Shabbos.

Lots of sems, though, will just close up shop each Shabbos, or most Shabbosim, and every YT forcing the girls to find somewhere to eat AND sleep.

Plus, I know this isn't going to be fun to hear but I've heard it from many Shabbos hosts in EY, but boys are a lot easier to host. When most yeshiva boys come over for the seudah, you can expect some divrei torah and more zemiros. When girls come, you can expect lots of chatting between themselves, and maybe, just maybe some help in the kitchen. Plus it can be awkward for the husband, as some posters on this thread have shared.

Either way, I'm with OP. This was my worst part of sem and any sems that haven't changed their policy on Shabbos and YT, should do so now.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:00 pm

amother Carnation wrote:

Not all boys yeshivas are like that. Some re judt like girls dorms.

amother

↑ Carnation ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:03 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Not all boys yeshivas are like that. Some re judt like girls dorms.

Most Yeshivish ones have their own dirahs. I got the impression that OP is talking about a yeshivish sem so that's what I'd compare it to.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:08 pm

amother Carnation wrote:

Most Yeshivish ones have their own dirahs. I got the impression that OP is talking about a yeshivish sem so that's what I'd compare it to.

Not sure where you got davka yeshivish from the op. I went to a MO/DL sem. And I know many other jpf ones that are just like what the op is talking about.

amother

Starflower ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:10 pm

amother Slateblue wrote:

Where my daughter is, it is. And we have plenty of family in Israel. She still chose a place that gives meals 7 days a week. I think the more chareidi seminaries give all meals and Yomim Tovim.

No. Some BY seminaries require a certain number of girls to stay to have the in Shabbos. Most places require girls to find places.

amother

Broom

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:14 pm

Yes I agree! My daughter is there now and it gives me such peace of mind that she can always stay and have shabbos/ yom tov meals. They even have a chazzan for RH and Yom Kippur.

amother Brass wrote:

This is not all seminaries. My seminary had in house meals every week with the eim bayit or another teacher who would come with fam. They encouraged girls to stay. Everyone should learn from Meohr ❤️

new oldie

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:16 pm

amother Starflower wrote:

No. Some BY seminaries require a certain number of girls to stay to have the in Shabbos. Most places require girls to find places.

If it’s something that’s important to you, than find out before you apply if the seminary does this.

amother

PlumPink ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:21 pm

I hate every part of this system, from every facet. From the shnorring your way into the door, to taking along friends when people can barely host just one of you (!), to the seminaries not compensating the hosts, every bit makes me throw up.
DD was in seminary last year. I warned her a million times before she applied that I don’t want to hear “I don’t have a place to go” because of this ridiculous system. She said “I’ll be fine, everyone does it” and by nature she’s outgoing so she thought it would work. It didn’t. We are extremely close and spoke multiple times a day, but the one and only time I yelled at her over the ocean was when she cried about not having where to go for Shabbos. I. Didn’t. Want. To. Hear. It. This sem does have a rotation of girls staying in mandatorily so there’s a nice Shabbos if someone doesn’t have where to go, but the girls feel like failures and nerds if they didn’t find a place to go.

And this is after paying more than 30K for the year (tickets included). I’m so disillusioned by the seminary system.

amother

↑ PlumPink

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:23 pm

new oldie wrote:

If it’s something that’s important to you, than find out before you apply if the seminary does this.

At every open house we went to, they said not to worry, the seminary is open for Shabbosim and the girls can always stay in. Most seminaries forgot to say that it’s not a popular option to stay in and it’s a very very last resort, and definitely not enjoyable. They made everything sound way more rosy than it really is IRL.

amother

↑ Starflower

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:27 pm

new oldie wrote:

If it’s something that’s important to you, than find out before you apply if the seminary does this.

There are many important things people consider when choosing a seminary, just like when choosing a school. Impossible to get all of them. Doesn't mean these aren't real issues.

amother

↑ DarkViolet ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:45 pm

amother Gold wrote:

To the poster who said she learned what kind of shabbos table she wanted and didn't want from being hosted - well, do you think it feels good to have young girls decide they do or DON'T want a home like yours ? Do you also want to be a spectacle, open for judgement and discussion ?

And I agree, at the very least , the seminary should pay for the cost of the food. But the whole system is unacceptable.

Omg. This is my pet peeve. I am a normal person. I did not sign up to be chavaya of the week or part of your seminary learning experience. I am a normal young mom with young kids of all shapes and sizes with a normal husband and normal life pressures. I work full time and live in a normal Israeli apartment and I dont appreciate thinking that my every move is being dissected.

amother

↑ Carnation

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 10:11 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Not sure where you got davka yeshivish from the op. I went to a MO/DL sem. And I know many other jpf ones that are just like what the op is talking about.

Not what she said about sem, the general tone, Shabbos and not Shabbat etc. I could be wrong but that was the impression I got.

But now that you brought it up, I'm curious: in your circles, DO people complain about the boys having to find places to go?

imaima ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 11:20 pm

amother Charcoal wrote:

There was also the expectation that we needed to bring a gift to the family that was hosting us. This is actually good chinuch and a nice thing to do. However, it was another big pressure for a seminary girl like myself who was on a tight budget using my own money to rush out Erev Shabbos to buy a candy platter or a small gift for the families.
I’m a big advocate for going to seminary , but this is a problem that the seminaries could fix by providing in Shabbosim every week for those that prefer to stay in or don’t have a place to go regularly. It’s not suitable for an 18 year to fend for themselves in this way. It’s also not right to impose guests on families and pressure them to take in girls that they don’t really want to host. As an adult who has been through all kinds of experiences, I would still have trouble doing this today many years later.

It’s not too much to expect from an 18 year old to buy an item and gift it! Don’t be ridiculous. Do you still have a trouble buying a bottle of wine? I doubt it

↑ Brit in Israel

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 11:29 pm

imaima wrote:

It’s not too much to expect from an 18 year old to buy an item and gift it! Don’t be ridiculous. Do you still have a trouble buying a bottle of wine? I doubt it

If you are given a monthly amount to spend to buy 4 bottles of wines or candy platters just for Shabbos it gets very expensive.
That money is usually also for your toiletries, new clothes if needed and anything else.
Assuming your not the girls going to get takeout each night then it's alot, if you are cut back in your expenses.

amother

Wheat

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 11:36 pm

I have a niece in sem now and she is welcome to come but unless I have a neighbour going away for Shabbos that will lend me their apartment it means she will sleep in the room with my 7 & 2 yr old girls on my 5 yr olds bed who will sleep on a crib mattress in my room.
Majority of people don't have space!
I'm more than happy to cook extra food for her especially for chagim and send it over to her, I've done it the past 2 yrs for my nephew and bil, erev YT I send meat, rice, cakes, pies challah rolls and anything else I make that can add to their meals but I'm not physically able to host them. Of course I will also add some crisps and chocolate.
Once my nephew was homesick and wanted to come for Shabbos so he knew what it meant and DD7 slept in my room. It's doable and if they are comfortable I'd be happy to do it often but I can't fit a friend as well. He still jokes that he wasn't worried to roll off his bed because he would land on myself son's bed, they are all one next to each other.

↑ imaima ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 11:39 pm

Brit in Israel wrote:

This should be a part of the allowance and parents should take it into account when sending their child and giving them spending money.
If all of it is „chinuch“ and „spiritual“ then gifting the hosts shouldn’t be where you cut corners! So you found several thousands to pay for seminary and tickets and all the right brand clothes and brands but the 10 dollar wine bottle is the part that will break your bank?! To show appreciation to people who as shown above live very modestly and are hardly affording the hosting?