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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
-> Seminary Info
amother
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 Sat, Sep 28 2024, 3:19 pm
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Yup, us Israeli's keep on watching Americans realize what a scam seminary is while the they perpetuate the lie year after year. Oh well.
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Success10
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 3:26 pm
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So I'll offer the flip side: Those families that I went to in seminary became my family and a huge beacon of support for me as I lived the next few years in Israel as a single until I got married. I still keep up with many of them today. I admit hosting is often an imposition and those families always knew when to say no if they couldn't host me that week. I myself am not located near any major seminary and we have no sleeping space so I'm not yet able to host and pay back the favor, but when I am IY"H I will.
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Roots
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 3:29 pm
Im hosting a bunch of girls for succot. They are all americans I never met while we are israelis who keep 1 day.
this year its a 3 day chag
I hope its a group we get along with- otherwise they are stuck here for 3 days- I kinda feel bad for them.
also, I dont know them- can I trust them at home alone here while we go out?
or do we stay with them home?
can I cook them food on their chag and my chol hamoed- I really should look into that lol..
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shabbatiscoming
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 3:54 pm
Im sorry but I agree with the poster who said that this is nothing new. This is part of MOST sems. Not all, but the vast majority of sems are like this and this is something to consider BEFORE you go to sem.
I was in sem over 25 years ago. I had a handful of families I could go to. I went with room mates and we stayed in many shabbatot.
This is part of the sem experience. For better or for worse.
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amother
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 4:19 pm
My last few SILs/sisters all went to different places and pretty sure they all had the option to stay in sem.
In fact, there were so many manditory "in" Shabbosim that I felt like I rarely saw them vs. brothers/BILs woukd come whenever.
Is this not the case?
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amother
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 4:23 pm
I went to seminary 15 years ago and I absolutely loved meeting different families.
However, I was privledged because my parents had lived in Israel for a few years in a very non-Anglo area so a lot of their friends remained. I loved getting to know them.
I fell in love with the land and made aliya after my wedding.
Some told me please bring a friend and some I went alone. Other weeks I went in. Our sem even then if they had iirc 10 girls food could be requested and we could almost always sleep in the dorm.
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amother
Valerian
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 5:06 pm
Let me be the dissenting opinion
I am in israel and I need to host a lot of girls btw
Most sems I know off have a placement person, but usually the girls don't want to do those meals and they want to go with there friends to "fun" meals.
A huge part of the year in Israel is about growing up and learning how to fend for yourself. No one has issues with the boys doing the same thing, find meals to join for shabbos and YT.
Personally, I used to go with my friends to random placements and I had a blast some times, and awful time others, but I learned so much from the experience. Sometimes how I wanted my shabbos table to look, and sometimes things I would never do. Sometimes I was lonley, or awkward, or bored, but it was a real growth experience.
And again you knew that finding places to be hosted was part of the package. If she is ready to go home after a few weeks of struggle, you should not allow her to date within the next five years.
Life is HARD and if you are not old enough to struggle thru getting seminary meals, you are not old enough to contemplate bringing children into this world.
Stop coddling your kids. The friends of mine whos parents expressed the sentiments I am seeing on this thread, who always expected life to be easy and perfect, and whos parents removed any hardships in life, are the ones really struggling with adulthood.
And married people with kids who expect everything to be perfect, really is not a good recipe. Its really really ugly....
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amother
Royalblue
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 5:08 pm
My daughter actually had several classmates who made Aliya, several friends from camp who lived in Israel, as well as 2 of my sisters and some other family. They had so many in Shabbosim that she just about spent one Shabbos at each.
Yes the Yomim Tovim are a challenge but it gets much easier.
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amother
NeonGreen
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 5:36 pm
| amother Valerian wrote: | Let me be the dissenting opinion
I am in israel and I need to host a lot of girls btw
Most sems I know off have a placement person, but usually the girls don't want to do those meals and they want to go with there friends to "fun" meals.
A huge part of the year in Israel is about growing up and learning how to fend for yourself. No one has issues with the boys doing the same thing, find meals to join for shabbos and YT.
Personally, I used to go with my friends to random placements and I had a blast some times, and awful time others, but I learned so much from the experience. Sometimes how I wanted my shabbos table to look, and sometimes things I would never do. Sometimes I was lonley, or awkward, or bored, but it was a real growth experience.
And again you knew that finding places to be hosted was part of the package. If she is ready to go home after a few weeks of struggle, you should not allow her to date within the next five years.
Life is HARD and if you are not old enough to struggle thru getting seminary meals, you are not old enough to contemplate bringing children into this world.
Stop coddling your kids. The friends of mine whos parents expressed the sentiments I am seeing on this thread, who always expected life to be easy and perfect, and whos parents removed any hardships in life, are the ones really struggling with adulthood.
And married people with kids who expect everything to be perfect, really is not a good recipe. Its really really ugly.... |
I don’t think it’s fair to charge so much money for a „survival camp“, either for boys or for girls.
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amother
Oldlace
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 6:00 pm
| amother Valerian wrote: | Let me be the dissenting opinion
I am in israel and I need to host a lot of girls btw
Most sems I know off have a placement person, but usually the girls don't want to do those meals and they want to go with there friends to "fun" meals.
A huge part of the year in Israel is about growing up and learning how to fend for yourself. No one has issues with the boys doing the same thing, find meals to join for shabbos and YT.
Personally, I used to go with my friends to random placements and I had a blast some times, and awful time others, but I learned so much from the experience. Sometimes how I wanted my shabbos table to look, and sometimes things I would never do. Sometimes I was lonley, or awkward, or bored, but it was a real growth experience.
And again you knew that finding places to be hosted was part of the package. If she is ready to go home after a few weeks of struggle, you should not allow her to date within the next five years.
Life is HARD and if you are not old enough to struggle thru getting seminary meals, you are not old enough to contemplate bringing children into this world.
Stop coddling your kids. The friends of mine whos parents expressed the sentiments I am seeing on this thread, who always expected life to be easy and perfect, and whos parents removed any hardships in life, are the ones really struggling with adulthood.
And married people with kids who expect everything to be perfect, really is not a good recipe. Its really really ugly.... |
I think there's some truth to what you're saying but there is also a balance to be struck. Why not accommodate the girls for the Tishrei chagim and then start the "out" Shabboses after that? 3 days is a big imposition on host families and so awkward for the girls when they are keeping second day yom tov and their hosts aren't.
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amother
Honeydew
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 6:06 pm
| amother Valerian wrote: |
And again you knew that finding places to be hosted was part of the package. If she is ready to go home after a few weeks of struggle, you should not allow her to date within the next five years.
Life is HARD and if you are not old enough to struggle thru getting seminary meals, you are not old enough to contemplate bringing children into this world.
Stop coddling your kids. The friends of mine whos parents expressed the sentiments I am seeing on this thread, who always expected life to be easy and perfect, and whos parents removed any hardships in life, are the ones really struggling with adulthood.
And married people with kids who expect everything to be perfect, really is not a good recipe. Its really really ugly.... |
Sorry, I disagree. For those who are introverts, struggling with needing to be placed for seminary meals, and eating with total strangers and feeling like a schnorrer, for an entire year is really really difficult. And it does not mean that someone will not be able to handle being married or having children. I did not understand the OP as someone who is coddling her daughter, maybe because I remember how hard it was for me when I was in seminary. Boys in yeshiva are in a totally different situation because they can make and have their own Shabbos meals- whereas for girls in Bais Yaakov seminaries, this is considered totally way out (most don't even have facilities for them to cook/heat food/eat in if the kitchen/dining room is closed).
As someone who now hosts seminary girls, mostly children of friends or relatives studying here, I can say that I still think this system is messed up, especially because the way it works everyone always wants to come in pairs or even with two or three friends (so that they can pay back their friends who took them to THEIR relatives). As the host, I enjoy getting to know my guest and [gasp] appreciate them interacting with/giving attention to my kids. When they come in groups, they tend to talk to each other almost exclusively during the Shabbos meals, and sleep or stay holed up in their bedrooms the rest of the time. Which is not enjoyable for me or my family. Despite that, I know how difficult it is for them with the meals, so I do agree to bringing along a single friend. Also, don't take this the wrong way, but many of us here need to watch our spending more than those in chul do, so it would be nice to figure out a way for a seminary charging parents 25K per year to compensate the families hosting girls. I know that often girls do chessed by their family members who host them often, as a way of giving back. But that doesn't really translate for those who host a lot but not a specific girl. (My kids do enjoy the candy platter of jellies/chocolates, but really, it's just extra unneeded junk food.)
OP, I would ask the seminary if they can create an option of staying in for the Shabbos meals on off-Shabbosos. I know many seminaries that never had that option in my time, around 20 years ago, now do. Also, I'm sure that as time goes on, it WILL get easier - as other girls in the seminary do tend to have close family and friends to go to, and will bring your daughter along.
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shabbatiscoming
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 6:07 pm
| amother NeonGreen wrote: | | I don’t think it’s fair to charge so much money for a „survival camp“, either for boys or for girls. |
Fair or not, people continue to pay when its a known thing about sem. So if people keep paying, they will keeo charging.
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amother
Denim
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 6:24 pm
Parents
this is a critical thing to enquire about bf your child leaves for sem and perhaps plan yt bf they even get there (or at least a friend they will make a plan with for yt)
I recall when my Third recently went to sem a week bf a mother asked on the chat btw do they serve meals every day ...a big part of this sem experience is no they have lunch served and cook their own dinner.
how can you send your child without knowing this.
same for curfew, shabbosim , yt,
parents need to pick a sem based on all this and what will fit their kids needs and abilities.
I'm sorry op your daughter is struggling.
perhaps she can find a buddy to go with for shabbosim or befriend someone who has family nearby.
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alibaba1
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 6:43 pm
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As someone who has been on both sides. My year in Israel taught me so much abiut different families, what I want my own shabbes table to look like and shaped my hashkafos in so many ways. As an israeli living here now I want to say this to parents: educate ur kids to be sensitive. Dont let your kids come with a million friends, we move out our kids from their bedroom and then you sit there shmoozing with your friends all shabbes, we are not a hotel ! Explain to them that people dont have extra bedrooms and will gladly host them for a meal in walking distance. I can tell you countless stories of all my friends who have hosted and the ignorance is real. I cannot say this enough, educate your kids to be a mentch !! Most seminaries leave the dorm open and if they want to be in a different area they can ask to sleep in the dorm of the other area.
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amother
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 7:44 pm
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This was a big reason I didn’t go to seminary…and I’m glad I didn’t. I did not need that extra stress.
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amother
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:14 pm
| amother Valerian wrote: | Let me be the dissenting opinion
I am in israel and I need to host a lot of girls btw
Most sems I know off have a placement person, but usually the girls don't want to do those meals and they want to go with there friends to "fun" meals.
A huge part of the year in Israel is about growing up and learning how to fend for yourself. No one has issues with the boys doing the same thing, find meals to join for shabbos and YT.
Personally, I used to go with my friends to random placements and I had a blast some times, and awful time others, but I learned so much from the experience. Sometimes how I wanted my shabbos table to look, and sometimes things I would never do. Sometimes I was lonley, or awkward, or bored, but it was a real growth experience.
And again you knew that finding places to be hosted was part of the package. If she is ready to go home after a few weeks of struggle, you should not allow her to date within the next five years.
Life is HARD and if you are not old enough to struggle thru getting seminary meals, you are not old enough to contemplate bringing children into this world.
Stop coddling your kids. The friends of mine whos parents expressed the sentiments I am seeing on this thread, who always expected life to be easy and perfect, and whos parents removed any hardships in life, are the ones really struggling with adulthood.
And married people with kids who expect everything to be perfect, really is not a good recipe. Its really really ugly.... |
Sorry but I'm in my 50s, happily married raised a beautiful family bh and I'm still not old enough to struggle getting through desperately finding places to get invited to. And I don't think anyone should have to.
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amother
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:25 pm
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | Im sorry but I agree with the poster who said that this is nothing new. This is part of MOST sems. Not all, but the vast majority of sems are like this and this is something to consider BEFORE you go to sem.
I was in sem over 25 years ago. I had a handful of families I could go to. I went with room mates and we stayed in many shabbatot.
This is part of the sem experience. For better or for worse. |
So I had parents who are geirim and who had zero clue what seminary was and I was naively told to just go to sem and grow from it! I knew no one in EY. I had never even been to EY. No one explained to me that I wouldn't have a choice to be in my seminary for shabbos. I plan to really make sure my daughters know what seminary is and make sure they are ready to go. I also bh have many friends and family now living in EY so it would be a completely different experience for my children.
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Ruchi
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:28 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I really don’t understand this whole idea of seminary girls having to figure out where to go every Shabbos and Yom Tov. It’s a lot of pressure for someone living far from home for her first time. Especially that the chagim start a few weeks after they’ve arrived and they’re still trying to acclimate to all this. Why can’t sems just make Shabbos and Yom Tov in house at least for the first couple of months?
My daughter is seriously considering leaving sem because of this and I don’t blame her.
Am I the only one? |
For the price the seminaries charge, shabbos and chagim ought to be included.
Last edited by Ruchi on Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Cornsilk
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:37 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I really don’t understand this whole idea of seminary girls having to figure out where to go every Shabbos and Yom Tov. It’s a lot of pressure for someone living far from home for her first time. Especially that the chagim start a few weeks after they’ve arrived and they’re still trying to acclimate to all this. Why can’t sems just make Shabbos and Yom Tov in house at least for the first couple of months?
My daughter is seriously considering leaving sem because of this and I don’t blame her.
Am I the only one? |
I’m surprised my seminary had an option they would place you for meals
I only availed myself for rosh Hashana and sukkos
But always had the peace mind they would place me if needed.
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amother
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Sat, Sep 28 2024, 9:01 pm
Shabbos was definitely my hardest day in sem! When your away from your family and trying to make friends and on top of that you don't enjoy to shnorer its extremely hard.
Most weeks I stayed in sem but there was no proper meal there, the girls woke up at 3 and just ate cake. Was definitely not good memories.
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