Tuition Crisis- Mishpacha Magazine feature article

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 11:17 am

amother Stoneblue wrote:

It did indeed morph into Us vs Them. But the 'somehow' is easily explained. When anyone expects you to pay the bulk of your income toward their services and berates you for just trying to live and breathe, how cannot it not become an Us vs Them scenario?

Right.

You are expected to pay most of your income to this service.

You must be made to feel guilty if you can't, after all, it's YOUR kids and YOUR responsibility.

If you are earning an amount of money that sounds like a lot, you must be able to afford tuition. We don't need to consider taxes or health insurance or family size or cost of living when deciding what "a lot" is.

If you are earning only an above-average income and are not in the top 1% of earners it means that you are just being lazy and should pay full tuition anyhow.

If your salary is not "a lot," you must be earning money under the table and secretly living a life of luxury and we must extort every penny we can find out about.

No other expense is considered important enough to not pay this full amount. Housing, food, clothing, transportation, medical expenses, therapy all must take a back seat to Tuition.

If you can't feed your kids the community will help, if they need clothes gemachs will step in, and there's no complaint that you had too many kids, but tuition is your personal problem and somehow you must be able to pay it.

No consideration will be given to paying less or late unless and until you humiliate yourself, beg, plead, and give up any right to privacy. Threatening to kick out your kids is completely fair, after all, you're not paying.

If you are not paying full tuition, it is stealing if you make any non-essential purchases. Why should our institution suffer just so you can have shoes without holes?

This is an organization and we may raise tzedakah money for it, but we are a business and if you don't pay, you don't stay.

Of course our administration must be paid very well, do you know how hard they work? No other industry is considered difficult next to this.

The school is there for education, not for babysitting, but if your kid needs any extra assistance in the education department (tutoring or therapies etc.), that's your re$pon$ibility.

This obligation to give a child a Jewish education is a spiritual one, but you may not bring up any spiritual arguments (Hashem created givers and takers, I listened to my Rav and had these children, etc.)

You have no say over the expenditures involved in this service. It is unreasonable for you to ask us to minimize some of the extras to make it more affordable. We have full rights to decide what we want to spend on and you just need to be quiet and fork over the cash.

You cannot ask us to consider a working parent's schedule when arranging our schedule (to enable you to work to pay our fees), that's your problem.

You have no say in the running of this service either. We know better than you what is good for your child. You should just be grateful that your child was accepted.

(BH not every school is like this. I know some that are very reasonable and understanding. Unfortunately there are too many that are though.)

amother

Hibiscus

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 11:26 am

amother Pistachio wrote:

You have no say over the expenditures involved in this service. It is unreasonable for you to ask us to minimize some of the extras to make it more affordable. We have full rights to decide what we want to spend on and you just need to be quiet and fork over the cash.

You cannot ask us to consider a working parent's schedule when arranging our schedule (to enable you to work to pay our fees), that's your problem.

You have no say in the running of this service either. We know better than you what is good for your child. You should just be grateful that your child was accepted.

Thank you for this excellent post.

I think these are MAJOR points in the Us vs. Them mentality. I have lots of great ideas about how schools can save money, but they're not open to hearing them. They do, however, feel fine telling me how I can cut expenses to pay them.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 11:59 am

amother Pistachio wrote:

I am floored. What is it about your kids, your responsibility that people just don’t understand? Do you walk into the water company or the electric company and demand that they take only what you can give? That your Rav said to have the kids so it’s the gas stations problem to pay for filling up your 12 passenger van?

Yes, the school serves a community function. Yes, the schools raise money from donors to survive. But it is not a question of the school, being a business or a charity organization. Donors can not provide nearly enough to pay every kids way. Ultimately as the parent it is your responsibility.

Whether you can afford it or not is not ultimately the schools problem. It is certainly on the school to try to work with parents who are trying their hardest and to try to find donors who can help alleviate a parents staggering burden.

But this doesn’t mean that you are entitled to get a free ride, because you’re truly can’t afford to pay the bill. Ultimately it is you asking the school to help you pay your bill, not the other way around.

↑ joker ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:14 pm

"Schools have to allow for a balance of life and living. Bottom line is that they need to take measure of their fees. An appropriate measure is to see if the average family can afford it. If it's a hard NO, then you cant blame the families"
comments like this and previous ones boggle my mind!!! I agree with op....when did supporting your family become everyone elses responsibility?!!
Why do schools have to make it "affordable" for you?! Do you tell this to the grocer and person you buy your house from??
As clearly stated most schools are just trying to pay their fees. These owners are holding personal debt to finance these schools!!!
The biggest mistake in my opinion was not charging accurate fees for school to start with....you can never walk that back.
If you know anything about finances it makes total sense that each child costs between 10-13k without any special services and teachers being paid poorly. Theres a reason the public schools spend 18 k per child!

***that being said the lack of transparency and parent choice and say inside schools is ridiculous and quite frankly many schools underperform along the lines of government type places...think post office****

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:26 pm

joker wrote:

There's a halachic obligation for communities to have Jewish Education for the children (boys)
And yes, it's a halachic right that each child has.

You can't create a luxury mikva, charge $100 per woman and then turn around and say "if you can't afford, don't go".
Mikva is every woman's right. So is Jewish Education.

But as an aside, as another poster said.

Schools need to choose their lane.
Are they a business, that I can only partake if a pay, like a grocery store, then 1)there need to be choices. Basic, premium, deluxe. 2)no more fundraising and donations.
Or are they an organization. With fundraising and donors, and working with the parents on what they can afford so they can afford tuition AND shoes AND a roof AND medical expenses.

↑ joker ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:33 pm

They dont fall into either category
They are providing a business service....education....but they want everyone to be allowed to come so they offer tuition breaks and are non - for - profit and therefore MUST fundraise.
I do not envy anyone in any position in a school from admin, to fundraiser to teachers. Every single part of this business is messy and difficult.
I dont know much about communities obligations...my understanding is its on the FATHER of each BOY to teach him TORAH.
You can homeschool your child and fulfill this
I see nothing luxurious about the way schools are run my only complaint is
a- they are run poorly- if I ran a business this way I would be bancrupt
b- everyone pays everyone elses bills - so my children dont need special services or social workers and I need to help cover the costs for all these specialists for other families with my tuition and I got no choice in that

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:50 pm

joker wrote:

It's both
The father is obligated.

But takanos have been established for centuries that the community is obligated to provide a basic Jewish Education/ a melamed whatever even to the poor children or the orphans who don't have fathers.

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 1:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

What is it about "Kol Yisroel Areivim" that you don't understand?

Listen, I put my money where my mouth is. I homeschooled for a year because I saw there was no way I could afford tuition.

It didn't work out that well, to be honest. But that's not why I stopped. I stopped because a school administrator (not from my kids' school) was appalled and said that Jewish kids belong in a Jewish school. He called the school and arranged a scholarship for that year.

If we don't value education as a community, and consider it each parent's personal problem, we will have a bigger issue in Jewish society. Is that what we want?

It's funny, we don't say this about food. We could say, "Your family, your responsibility. Forage or go beg in the street." We don't. We make Tomchei Shabbos and food banks.

We don't say about clothes, "Your kids, your responsibility." We make gemachs and ask stores to donate unsold stock.

We don't say about health emergencies, "Your life, your health, your responsibility." We make Hatzolah and referral agencies and Chai Lifeline and RCCS.

We have Chaveirim, we have Shmira, we have gemachs for almost every need.

But suddenly when it comes to education of Jewish children, we pull the "your kids, your responsibility" card.

Do you value Jewish education or not?

How is it that we taught the secular world about communal responsibility for education, and that every child deserves an education, and they learned so well that we forgot?

With the electric bill, I can turn off lights and not use any AC. With the water bill, I can give multiple kids baths together. With rent, I can move to a smaller place a little further out or a basement. With gas, I can choose to walk instead of driving. With the food bill, I can eat eggs instead of chicken and make my bread from scratch.

But with tuition, someone else sets the price and there is NOTHING I can do to change it. Imagine everyone in a town being forced to pay $8,000 a month in rent for a 5,000 sq ft home. Even if you don't need it or want it, even if you would be happier with something smaller. Would you still say "your family, your responsibility"? Or would you put some of that onus on the ones who fixed the prices to an unaffordable level?

We can continue down this path of blaming parents for just not being wealthy enough to afford tuition and claiming that they don't value education (I'm sorry, you perhaps don't grasp the sacrifices families need to make to afford even part of tuition.)

Or maybe we should be okay with parents paying a reasonable tuition now, perhaps maintaining their debt to the school after graduation, and accepting as a nation that not every family will be able to afford the current tuition prices.

We complain all the time about luxuries that became community standards. But the biggest one is staring us in the face: Tuition. Basic education would be affordable. What it has become today (and I don't deny it has significant advantages) is just not.

We don't seem to be open to making more basic schools, and I understand why. But we can't turn around and tell all parents that it's their problem that they can't afford it.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 1:31 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

No one is blaming, but where is the money falling from the sky for the parents who can’t afford it. It doesn’t exist. The parents ought not to be made to pay what they can’t afford and the money ought to magically appear but unfortunately it doesn’t. mortgages need to be paid. the schools utility bills need to be paid. the schools teachers need to be paid.

As much as the parents ought to have their kids, tuition costs covered, the money just isn’t there. The relatively small sums for Tomchei Shabbos can be raised. Tuition is completely different. An organization hundreds of times that amount or more would need to be funded to cover tuitions. That money just doesn’t exist.

The school is not blaming the parents. It is simply rightfully billing the parents so that the school can function. Blaming the school for lack of a mega communal tuition fund is simply shooting the messenger.

Yes, the schools do function as a communal organization, and do fundraisers. That allows them to give the meager scholarships they already do- it does not necessitate them wiping out everyone’s tuition bills and failing as an ongoing entity in the process .

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 1:41 pm

amother OP wrote:

No one is blaming, but where is the money falling from the sky for the parents who can’t afford it. It doesn’t exist. The parents or not to be made to pay, and the money or to magically appear but unfortunately it doesn’t. mortgages need to be paid. the schools utility bills need to be paid. the schools teachers need to be paid.

As much as the parents or to have their kids, tuition costs covered, the money just isn’t there. The relatively small sums for Tomchei Shabbos can be raised. I and organization, hundreds of times that amount or more would need to be funded to cover tuitions. The school is not blaming the parents. It is simply rightfully billing the parents so that the school can function. Blaming the school for lack of a mega communal tuition fund is simply shooting the messenger.

Yes, the schools do function as a communal organization, and do fundraisers. That allows them to give the meager scholarships. They already do it does not necessitate them wiping out everyone’s tuition bills and failing.

You're the one who said "your kids, your responsibility."

There is no money falling from the sky to the school, but it's not falling to the parents either.

The school's bills need to be paid, but so do my own.

The administrator may have taken out a mortgage, and I respect him for that, but I also need to cover my rent.

I'm not blaming the school at all for wanting my tuition payment. I get it. I don't think they are overcharging for what they are providing.

They can bill me all they want, but if the money isn't there, it really, truly, honestly, doesn't exist. As much as I want it to.

Saying "your kids, your responsibility" is just a cop-out. Yes we need a solution. No, it can't just be on the school. But it can't be just on the parents either.

What is the answer? I don't know. But the current "solution" is not working. My maxed out credit cards that are now charged off and threatening lawsuits are just one proof.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 2:41 pm

joker wrote:

"The school's bills need to be paid, but so do my own.

The administrator may have taken out a mortgage, and I respect him for that, but I also need to cover my rent"
THIS IS YOUR BILL
Did you tell the electric company sorry I have bills to pay
The owner is using g HIS money to pay YOUR "electric " Bill
Just like food stays the same price for everyone and we have tomchei shabbos we should have tomchei chinuch but price is the same for everyone
Im a huge believer in tzedaka but when we mix up rascals with a given right we have a problem

If I don't want to pay so much electricity, I have the options to shut my lights, turn off the AC, unplug my fridge. Whatever I want.

With tuition, there's no way for me to choose to lower my cost. I can't request an old desk, a newer teacher, older textbooks, less color copies, a yard with no equipment, etc. (im not saying I would, I'm saying all these things make it cheaper).

Currently it's a one way situation. The school demands money, im required to pay. I don't have a choice and that's a problem.

If the electric company said that I have a choice no electricity or an $800 bill with every light on 24/7, the AC at 68, etc, then that would not be ok.

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 2:54 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

Right.

You are expected to pay most of your income to this service.

You cannot ask us to consider a working parent's schedule when arranging our schedule (to enable you to work to pay our fees), that's your problem.

Omg THIS.

This bothers me so much!

Schools know we are not our parent’s’ generation. They know most families depend on two incomes these days. So if they know this and they’re allegedly in this for the “klal”, why has the school calendar not changed an iota since we were in school?

Why can’t there be even the slightest bit of consideration for working parents’ schedules?

Why do we still give 5 year olds off 5 days before Pesach?

Why do we still have an 11 week summer when schools know that day camp only runs for 8 weeks? (And Mommy’s job runs all through the year)

Why do we have so many random half days throughout the year? (And by half days I mean 2 hours of school)

Before you throw tomatoes, I am not asking for a babysitting service. I’m asking for the working parent’s schedule to be considered when drawing up the school calendar. Even just a tiny bit.

Is that too much to ask for?

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 3:32 pm

joker wrote:

I do tell the electric company that I'm sorry I have bills to pay.

They offer me payment plans, discounts, point me to government grants, and suggest ways to save on my electricity. (I have a shutoff notice now, I know what I'm talking about.)

Food is not the same price for everyone at all. I challenge you, share your food bill and amount of family members eating. I'll beat it hands down and I'm pretty sure I have more kids than you.