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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Kosher Kitchen
if you have only one oven, is it
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| Meaty |
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59% |
[ 68 ] |
| Pareve (+ double wrap) |
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6% |
[ 8 ] |
| Pareve but also use for meaty and burn out in between |
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13% |
[ 15 ] |
| Other (Please specify in a post!) |
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20% |
[ 24 ] |
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| Total Votes : 115 |
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tichellady
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 Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:15 am
| amother Navy wrote: | How in the world can you use it for all 3?
Really asking. Is this a normally accepted thing in frum circles? Do you just double wrap everything?
(Obviously not paskining from imamother) |
There are a variety of opinions. Because our ovens have good ventilation ( unlike a small toaster oven) there are opinions that it’s fine. I learned this in seminary. See this:
According to the approach of Aruch Hashulchan, one would be permitted to cook milk and meat consecutively in the same oven, provided the oven is clean. The cleanliness of the oven eliminates the problem of Reicha, and the fact that we do not cook in small confined areas removes the problem of Zeiah.16 Rabbi Hershel Schachter routinely tells inquirers that they may adopt this approach. Rabbi Schachter reasons that the problem of Zeiah applies only to Hevel – thick steam – an assertion supported by Biur Hagra (92:39). Rav Schachter counsels, however, that one wait for the oven to cool down from dairy use before the meat use and vice versa (see Pesachim 26b).
https://www.koltorah.org/halac.....t=amp
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gr82no
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:30 am
The people who use it for milchigs and fleishig, it sounds like you kasher it in between.
Where does the term meaty come from? English its meat, yiddish its flaishig, hebrew its besari.
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tichellady
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:32 am
| gr82no wrote: | The people who use it for milchigs and fleishig, it sounds like you kasher it in between.
Where does the term meaty come from? English its meat, yiddish its flaishig, hebrew its besari. |
I don’t kasher it in between
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scruffy
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:32 am
| gr82no wrote: | The people who use it for milchigs and fleishig, it sounds like you kasher it in between.
Where does the term meaty come from? English its meat, yiddish its flaishig, hebrew its besari. |
I'm assuming OP is from England where they say meaty and milky.
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amother
Silver
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:33 am
| amother Navy wrote: | How in the world can you use it for all 3?
Really asking. Is this a normally accepted thing in frum circles? Do you just double wrap everything?
(Obviously not paskining from imamother) |
Call the Bais Horaah of Lakewood. I did. Made my life ALOT simpler !
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:42 am
Flieshig oven constantly kasher to parve
I clean oven,wait 24 hrs and burn out for an hr then go on baking spree . I take a deep breath and put meat in and the rush is over
(for about a week or two)
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readreread
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:43 am
| scruffy wrote: | | I use my oven for milchig, fleishig, and pareve. As per my LOR if the oven is clean it can be used for any category after 24 hours, or if you don't want to wait that long you can put it on 500 F for 40 minutes and then use it for the opposite category. |
Same. I also weirdly like cleaning out my oven and find it satisfying so it never gets super gross.
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:45 am
Modern ovens are a touchy area in the frum world.
You will get the gamete of use for all three to kosher in btw to only use for one never kosher or double wrap.
Each man must speak to their own LOR
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Golde
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:48 am
I have one oven and I use it for meat, dairy and parve. I don't double wrap or kasher in between as per my rav's guidance.
If you're not used to having only one, you should speak to your rav and find out what your options are.
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Golde
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:50 am
| Golde wrote: | I have one oven and I use it for meat, dairy and parve. I don't double wrap or kasher in between as per my rav's guidance.
If you're not used to having only one, you should speak to your rav and find out what your options are. |
However I really want two ovens as I'm sick of always having to keep it clean! I hope one day...
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 9:25 am
My yeshivish rav holds that we can use the same oven for milchig, fleishig and pareve, without kashering or waiting. (All spills do need to be cleaned right away, but he said that any burnt-on stuff doesn't count as food, and everything else generally comes off easily...)
BUT the should officially be either milchigs or fleishigs, and the other can be cooked in the oven as long as it is covered.
Since we eat more milchigs and pareve during the week, and things like pizza can't be covered, I have always made my oven milchigs. I just cover all fleishigs. Pareve doesn't matter.
When I only had one oven, I would very very rarely kasher it from milchigs-uncovered to fleishigs-uncovered. Our rav holds that it's fine to do that occasionally, but it should not be done often. It was usually before yom tov that I did it, and then kashered it back right afterwards. My current home has an oven downstairs in the basement, which I use for uncovered fleishigs when needed (but it's a pain to run up and down the large flight of stairs in order to put it in, check on it a few times, take it out). Covered fleishigs is still in my kitchen oven.
The moral of the story? Ask. And know that if someone is doing something differently than you do, they may very likely be following their own psak. This rav, for reference, is very machmir about certain things. This is one of the areas he happens to be meikil.
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amother
Honeysuckle
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 10:00 am
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Our oven was dairy when we had one oven. We followed the psak that if it was clean and had cooled between uses, it could be used for solid or covered meat (but not uncovered, liquidy meat). But we don't eat much meat, and the meat we do eat is almost always just baked, seasoned chicken
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 10:03 am
| amother Ruby wrote: | My yeshivish rav holds that we can use the same oven for milchig, fleishig and pareve, without kashering or waiting. (All spills do need to be cleaned right away, but he said that any burnt-on stuff doesn't count as food, and everything else generally comes off easily...)
BUT the should officially be either milchigs or fleishigs, and the other can be cooked in the oven as long as it is covered.
Since we eat more milchigs and pareve during the week, and things like pizza can't be covered, I have always made my oven milchigs. I just cover all fleishigs. Pareve doesn't matter.
When I only had one oven, I would very very rarely kasher it from milchigs-uncovered to fleishigs-uncovered. Our rav holds that it's fine to do that occasionally, but it should not be done often. It was usually before yom tov that I did it, and then kashered it back right afterwards. My current home has an oven downstairs in the basement, which I use for uncovered fleishigs when needed (but it's a pain to run up and down the large flight of stairs in order to put it in, check on it a few times, take it out). Covered fleishigs is still in my kitchen oven.
The moral of the story? Ask. And know that if someone is doing something differently than you do, they may very likely be following their own psak. This rav, for reference, is very machmir about certain things. This is one of the areas he happens to be meikil. |
So interesting, I guess we need to ask. When you say pareve doesn't matter, does that mean that you hold that something like challah baked in your oven can be eaten with both milk and meat? (This is the point I keep asking here because it's the thing which is bothering me, that making it meaty will mean that challah can't be eaten with cheese or whatever. I think that's how we hold but sounds like we should find out more.)
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amother
Zinnia
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 10:07 am
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My oven is currently fleishig and I double wrap when using it for milchigs. When it was pareve, I double wrapped anything milchig or fleishig to keep it pareve. I actually prefer keeping it pareve since that way I could have cheese with my challah, but dh and ds like to put fleishigs in uncovered.
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 10:18 am
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I have a small countertop oven (fits 2 pans) for milchigs. Big oven is fleishigs.
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amother
Buttercup
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 10:20 am
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We use it for all three. but the toaster oven is dairy.
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 10:39 am
| amother OP wrote: | | So interesting, I guess we need to ask. When you say pareve doesn't matter, does that mean that you hold that something like challah baked in your oven can be eaten with both milk and meat? (This is the point I keep asking here because it's the thing which is bothering me, that making it meaty will mean that challah can't be eaten with cheese or whatever. I think that's how we hold but sounds like we should find out more.) |
Yes, we eat anything pareve in it with either milchig or fleishigs. But obviously please ask your own shayla. As I tell a certain family member who is surprised at a couple of the kulos that we have "We keep all of his chumros, so we feel confident keeping his kulos too."
(And yes, he's a very mainstream rav. I don't mean to make it sound like he has a bunch of strange pesakim...)
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amother
Cobalt
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 11:02 am
| amother Peachpuff wrote: | | I have a small countertop oven (fits 2 pans) for milchigs. Big oven is fleishigs. |
Do you have a link?
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SuperWify
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 12:23 pm
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Didn’t vote because it’s used for everything. I burn it out in between.
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