5 yr old got called to menahel's office

amother

OP ↓

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 1:57 pm

He got called into the menahel's office because a mother of a boy from his class complained that my son pushed her son once. Knowing my child, he is a very sensitive boy. He wouldn't push for no reason unless it was in self defense. We teach strongly to our kids that hands are for mitzvos, not for making booboos but such is life that siblings fight (he has a sister under him age 3) Obviously I tried to get the full story out of him and explained to him that pushing is wrong but getting the story out was like pulling teeth 🦷. I am upset that the mother did not reach out to me his actual mother and ran straight to the principal. As someone who went to public school, is this the normal thing to do? I would be upset also if my son was ch"v a bully and there was repeated pushing, and we would do our best to correct the behavior. As we were scolding him he was full on crying in pure distress, screaming at us "no, no, no!" Also this happened only once as the rebbe said. (And the rebbe does not know what happened before.)
I am not sure how to handle it. This morning I told my son that he should say sorry to the boy and again he got very agitated. Can someone please tell me if this is typical behavior of the other mother? Because I rather that she should talk to me, his mother and not run straight to the principal. That's humiliating either way. AND it's not even a month into cheder. I feel very horrified about the whole thing.
ETA
This was the first time ever that he was called into the menahel's office.
ETA 2: he keeps to himself in cheder, has at least one friend.

amother

Anemone

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:02 pm

Why did you scold him?

It sounds like there is more to this story and he already got more than his fair share of scolding from the menahel (poor kid! he must have felt so defenseless). What he needs is understanding and listening, not more telling him that pushing is wrong. He already knows this, and has no pattern of such behavior.

He may have trouble communicating, or maybe thinks it's Lashon Hara to tell, or another kid threatened him not to tell anyone.

Either way, his behavior does not sound to me like a bully, and he should not be assumed to be wrong.

I think the other mother completely overreacted. One time pushing another child is not a capital offense that warrants a call to the principal, ESPECIALLY if nobody knows what actually happened. (For all you know, her kid pushed yours, and yours pushed him back instinctively. Or he bumped into him, and didn't push him at all.)

I'd apologize to your son and let him know you trust him. When he is ready to tell you the real story be open to hearing.

Brit in Israel

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:04 pm

Definitely not normal to do that!!!
If someone is bullying my son 5, (he has a neighbour with him who is jealous of his friends so it unfortunately happens often) we first find out from my son why he was bullied, if there is a back story and then tell him if it happens to straight away tell the rebbe or teacher.
We mentioned to the parents but they couldn't care. After it kept happening, only then we told the teacher.
I wouldn't even dream of going to the principal unless we talking a good few weeks of constant bullying and the teacher is ignoring it.

Ds now tells us how he told the rebbe this week when the boy was making fun of him. He also said he encouraged his other friend to tell the rebbe when he was being bullied.

I did teach my kids that if they are being hurt and the bully isn't stopping they can use their hands to push them away but nothing more.

amother

Maize ↓

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:18 pm

I had a case were my son complained a boy was bothering him on the bus.
I wanted to stop it asap. Not let it go on.
I didn’t call the parents. I don’t know them. I didn’t even know the kids last name.
I did call the rebbe. The rebbe told me they spoke to the kid.

I don’t want them to yell or discipline at the kid. Just discuss proper bus behaviors. I would think that is she appropriate.

But if my kid feels unsafe I will call the school.
And if I don’t know the parents I won’t/can’t call them.
I would never tell my child to hit or bully back.

Chayalle

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:18 pm

I learned from my mother AH that anyone who tells you your kid did XYZ, you say thank you, I'll look into it. You then ask the kid what happened. You NEVER scold on someone else's hearsay.

One of my brothers was once accused of breaking another boy's glasses. The mother called my mother screaming that she needs to pay for a new pair. My mother calmly told her she'll look into it. Turned out the other boy came to punch my brother, he put out his hands in self-defense, which knocked off the other boy's glasses, and they got stepped on in the following scuffle. There was more than one witness to what happened.
My parents did not pay.

I've had experiences with kids accused of doing things they didn't do. Or it didn't quite play out the way the other person said. Always stay calm, never accuse your child before FIRST asking to hear their side (after the scolding is too late, you lost your chance to hear them fairly.)

amother

NeonBlue

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:24 pm

Calling the principal was total overkill, but she wasn't wrong not to call you. YOU know you're a fair and reasonable person and WE know that (well, if we take you at your word, at least). But SHE doesn't know that. And having dealt with these kinds of situations both as a parent and as a teacher, I can attest that far too many parents are NOT reasonable and it almost never goes well when the parents discuss the situation with each other. The middle ground here is to speak with the teacher, especially at this stage where it only happened once and really doesn't qualify as an issue and this stage.

amother

Hibiscus

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:27 pm

Sometimes 5 year old boys push. I think you (and the other mother) are both overreacting. This is annoying and upsetting, but not abnormal among young children. If it becomes a pattern of behavior, then you need to figure out what is going on. But a one off- remind him to use his words or go to a teacher if there is a problem and move on.

amother

Gray

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:33 pm

amother OP wrote:

Oy. So there's no way for us to rectify this? We want to get to the bottom of it and get the whole story and then get back to the menahel and explained what happened, so the other mother will know the whole story too.

I am not sure you have to get to the bottom of it.
You do have to make sure of the following:

The menahel needs to know that you stick up for your son all the time!!
If there is something your child needs to learn, well that's what parents and educators are all about.

Blame is the wrong way to go about it.
Principals pickup on parents who are not wholeheartedly on son's side and then they too will be hard on your son!

Your son needs to know you are on his side!!! All the time. All the time.
The world may be a hard place for your child specifically. Be there for him.

If your child has a hard time socially consider a speech therapist who specializes in teaching communication/social skills.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:34 pm

amother NeonBlue wrote:

Right. I spoke to other more older, experienced mothers on the phone and apparently it's a normal thing for boys to do at this age.
That is my question, also, why did she run to the principal and not the rebbe?

amother

↑ Maize

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:37 pm

amother OP wrote:

Sometimes the rebbe wants the menahel to handle it. This way it doesn’t tarnish the relationship of the boy and his rebbe. (Do you know for a fact she called the menahel)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:40 pm

amother Maize wrote:

I would let it go
I would assume a menahel of 5 year olds realize how boys are (both that they rough house and stories aren't exact) and will move on also.

As you see, not a very easy thing to do. I feel horrible about the entire thing. But again this is my oldest and I have no clue how to move on.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:40 pm

amother Maize wrote:

Sometimes the rebbe wants the menahel to handle it. This way it doesn’t tarnish the relationship of the boy and his rebbe. (Do you know for a fact she called the menahel)

The menahel spoke with my husband
The kid knows my son's name.
Which happens to be the same as their rebbe's name.

amother

DarkGray

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:41 pm

amother OP wrote:

Maybe take him out alone for ice cream or to a store and tell him you know he’s the best and would never push anyone for no reason if at all, and that you believe him, but did maybe that boy push him first or bother him first etc? Tell him you only want to know so the menahel could also know that he’s the best boy because the menahel doesn’t know him as good as you.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:43 pm

amother DarkGray wrote:

I was just thinking this.

amother

Iris

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:54 pm

I have 6 boys kah.
Yesterday my 6 yr old son came to me in tears about bullying in school. Not pushing. More than that. I don't yet know the rebbe for this year. I don't know this kids parents. I do know that the principal knows my son, knows that he doesn't exaggerate, knows that he is sensitive.
I called the principal.
BUT I also know the principal. I know that he will not overreact. I know that he won't scold the other kid. I know he will do his best to work this out for both the kids.

I KNOW I did the right thing.

There are a few things that stuck out in your post.

1. I would never scold my son on the basis of hearsay.
2. you said "we". He clearly felt all teh adults in his life were ganging up against him. In a case like this, only one parent has to be stern (if at all). The other parent's job is to comfort
3. I would call the principal and explain how this wasn't what your son saw and that he is really upset for being yelled at and ask that he apologizes or at least calls him in and creates a more positive finish. You don't want your son traumatized.
4. If your son is getting agitated at the thought of talking to this kid, you need to dig further and find out what else this kid has done that your son is clearly scared of him. Did the principal warn your son never to talk to him again? Did the kid shvitz over him that he told on him and got him into trouble? There is more going on than meets the eye.

amother

Stoneblue

Wed, Sep 18 2024, 2:56 pm

My child is older. He was bullied by a kid in his class. He asked the teachers for help. The kid continued to bully and the teachers didn't protect my child. My child warned the other kid and told him he is about to loose it. The kid continued. My child hit him.
I got a call from school. Your son doesn't even regret that he hit....
My answer was, I'm happy my child stood up for himself. He asked for help. Didn't receive help and B'H was able to help himself.
They couldn't believe those words came from me. I'm happy, that with my youngest I finally learned how to handle those situations.
School wanted to suspend him for a few days. I told them that I will not accept it unless the bully will also be suspended.
Long conversations, arguments, but at the end, they caved in.
My child I told, that if there ever is a next time, if asked, say you regret. You regret that it came to this situation, which is not a lie. No need to regret hitting this bully. And school does not need to know what exactly he regrets.