I just can’t understand it-and I can’t take it either!

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Forum -> Household Management -> Finances

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amother

Sand

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 8:44 am

amother OP wrote:

I agree that is the best response yet and actually makes me feel better. I am making it. But this is what making it looks like.

I think I need to realign expectations with reality but it’s shocking still that this income equals a reality where any true extras are still out of reach.

To those of you who ask why bother? I say, agreed. Don’t.

Yes
OP when you are rich you are just affording things you never would have afforded before, but they still don’t feel like luxury, e.g. housekeeper to watch your kids when you work etc.

When I was poor I just didn’t work when my kids have no daycare which is sometimes lose lose and sometimes not.

You buy flexibility and opportunities more than actual luxuries.

amother

Waterlily ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 8:45 am

Your housing expenses are roughly triple what mine are. It’s a very big chunk of your income especially with the HELOC.

Also, your health insurance costs are very high. Would you be able to get a “real job” corporate job or government job that jsupplies health insurance for your family? Like working for a company or a medical facility. That would also save you around 60k in pretax dollars (almost your whole salary).

I have more tuition each month (around 7k) but I can breathe because I pay zero for health insurance, 2800 for house, and zero for car because it was a used car that we paid off. I agree with the 400 per Shabbos but I am still in a breathable space earning around 360k between my husband and myself.

Lastly, your reliance on stocks and being “above equity” might sink you. You are at risk of losing your house just to prop up your husband’s stock gambles. That means you risked karka to buy metaltilin which is against Jewish custom. Also every day your husband is checking the stock value and it gives your whole family no peace (I tell you this because I went through it, it was a nightmare, and eventually we lost around 1.5 million. However, we did not borrow against our house along the way.)

amother

↑ Ebony ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 8:55 am

amother Blonde wrote:

No it’s not. If the couple has savings and can afford life it’s not maaser

It is almost always enabling them to stay in learning with peace of mind. It is indeed maaser. Consult you local Rav and you will hear the same.

amother

Stonewash

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 8:59 am

amother Lime wrote:

I didn't do an exact calculation but that was my point.
When someone makes a half a million to a million in 'salary' they're not rich at all.

The only way to have the benefit of making this amount of money is by making it as a business owner.

Business owners pay a lot of taxes too.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:11 am

Thank you for all the advice. I will definitely be speaking to a professional. But offhand-

Curious if anyone here has joined opolis. Looking at their website and insurance pretax would be 1300 monthly. That would clear off 3750 from my husbands pay check. In addition I would be able to get fsas. The benefits are not stellar-12k family deductible, but fsa would cover 2500 and it’s pretax. I could also add hospital indemnity for emergencies. Also it seems like they would pay my taxes on an w-2, I think from the income of my business. Which would put me slightly ahead. Does anyone know if opolis legit?

Another question. If I hire my dil to do some work for me, and pay her from my business, would she be a legitimate employee? Would I be able to pay support from my payroll? That would be pretax as well.

amother

↑ Blonde ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:12 am

amother Ebony wrote:

It is almost always enabling them to stay in learning with peace of mind. It is indeed maaser. Consult you local Rav and you will hear the same.

We did, he said it’s not maaser. There is no reason they need tzedakah money so they can put money into savings

zigi

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:17 am

Your dil would be on the books and can pay into social security.

amother

↑ Ebony ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:23 am

You would have to pay her more than 2k for her to net the 2k she is currently getting. That would probably still be worth it for you because her marginal tax rate is probably much lower than yours.

amother

↑ Lime

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:26 am

amother Stonewash wrote:

Business owners pay a lot of taxes too.

I'm a business owner on the fence of accepting a salaried position and its the insane taxes that are keeping me on the fence.

I am probably going to take the position but the amount I need to make in salary in order to make it after tax is significantly more than what I made as a business owner.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:31 am

Re DIL In terms of yashrus as long as she is actually working for me that would be in line?

amother

↑ Charcoal

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:38 am

Curios what does your husband do that he has such a high salary ?

amother

↑ Ebony ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:39 am

amother OP wrote:

Re DIL In terms of yashrus as long as she is actually working for me that would be in line?

It can’t be a no show job but if you want to hire her at a premium and she is actually doing some work that is your prerogative.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:46 am

Ok and anyone know anything about opolis?

That and my daughters salary would clear out 5750 from my husbands salary and would come off pretax at my end for roughly 3500 a month.

What about the Yeshiva thing. Is it totally clean to convert part of tuition to donation?. In our case not worth taking any risks.

amother

↑ Ebony ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:50 am

amother OP wrote:

More murky. It can be done more easily when negotiating tuition initially but totally clean? That’s tough. Probably not much of an actual risk factor audit wise if that’s what you are really worried about. Consult you accountant.

amother

DarkGreen ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:58 am

I’m confused why people keep saying that at a higher income the tax percent is higher on all the income. It’s only higher on the amount above the limit.

amother

↑ Waterlily

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 9:59 am

[quote="amother DarkGreen"]I’m confused why people keep saying that at a higher income the tax percent is higher on all the income. It’s only higher on the amount above the limit.

[/quot

Because it’s blends. Like if you pay 20 percent on the first 50,000 and 30 percent on the next 50,000 then overall you are paying 25 percent.

amother

Ultramarine

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 10:08 am

amother OP wrote:

Sorry correction he is making 23k on both paychecks which brings us 7k short. His base is 425.

Self employment has its own tax which cuts into my income.

We do have a very good and of course expensive accountant.

I have a tax bill at the end of the year because it’s just not possible for me to cover my expenses and set aside for taxes. My husbands bonus covers our taxes and there have been times that the bonus wasn’t great and we had to take from the heloc.

One more point. My husband and I are both extremely responsible people, it’s not that we’re careless. It’s just that somehow we have always been in over our heads and now that we are finally getting this good income we are paying for our past mistakes.

I am dealing with this now- decent salary but lots of taxes and cost of life (BH) and we just made a simcha (BH) which cost more than I was expecting (doesn't it always?) and I'm wondering how to change things going forward so we have more of a cushion and less paycheck-to-paycheck living. Also with the crazy inflation and even with some raises my paycheck is going less far than it used to (thanks Joe and Kamala).

Some things I am thinking about-
1. Cutting down on cleaning help (I hate this idea since I am a slob and it's the only way I live in any sort of a functional home, and I work so hard and long hours it's almost a necessity, but I need to)
2. I have never really needed to aggressively price compare with grocery prices but I think I need to do some careful looking at our food budget and yes, buy cheaper meat/ poultry for shabbos and fewer disposables and I probably need to start shopping at Aldi's for produce and eggs and things like that even though it's less convenient than doing a one-stop-shopping at frum stores. Also we use tons of disposables (plates/ cups etc) but that's probably a huge waste and I think we need to learn how to wash cups and cutlery when we eat.
3. Right now we have leased cars, I think we will need to buy outright next time (with financing) and drive them for many years.
4. FSA- I haven't used this although I am eligible but it seemed too complicated. Now I realize it's a necessity.

Basically little things that I hope will add up.

amother

↑ DarkGreen

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 10:09 am

[quote="amother Waterlily"]

amother DarkGreen wrote:

I’m confused why people keep saying that at a higher income the tax percent is higher on all the income. It’s only higher on the amount above the limit.

[/quot

Because it’s blends. Like if you pay 20 percent on the first 50,000 and 30 percent on the next 50,000 then overall you are paying 25 percent.

But she is not anywhere near paying 37 percent on all income. The highest tax bracket for 2024 is 37 percent for income above 731k. 35 percent for 487-731k. Everything below 487 has a lower tax bracket.

That said, she is self employed so for her own salary she pays full fica herself. But self employed is supposed to deduct all expenses to balance that out.

amother

↑ Navy

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 10:12 am

ittsamother wrote:

Last I checked a few years ago with Fidelis, full price was $225 a month. But CHP is capped at 3 children, it says here: https://www.health.ny.gov/heal.....t.htm

So even if it's more than $225 a kid a month, since they would only have to pay for 3 kids, it can't be near the equivalent of paying private insurance for 8 kids.

Our kids are on CHP and my husband and I are on United Refuah. We save a ton that way.

Full premium now is over $300 and it is not capped at 3 kids. That's only the subsidized plans for those eligible.

amother

↑ DarkRed ↓

Sun, Sep 15 2024, 10:19 am

amother DarkGreen wrote:

Right, but we are all assuming that her income is secondary so its taxed at 35% for federal. She's paying the higher taxes on her salary (not her husband's).

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