I just can’t understand it-and I can’t take it either!

amother

↑ Pewter

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:04 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

Ok at least some of this is wrong .
Depending on income , but still I pay for 4 kids, and the rest are all free .
CHP has no copays & no needed referals besides regular
All regular pediatricians take .
Some specialists are harder to find , but they exists .
And for all kids combined, I pay $45/ month.
I think versus private insurance, it’s saving few k a month .
Yea adults need separate insurance.

Not sure what a regular referral is?
Also, at $600K of income the monthly premiums will be a lot more than $45 per month. At that level (and well below that level) you are paying the full premium per child.

amother

↑ Lemon ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:05 pm

amother Plum wrote:

If you would have asked me a few years ago I would have also had a hard time wrapping my head around that much $$ for household help. However, considering I just paid my cleaning lady $520 for TWO days of work (over 2 months), it’s not so hard to believe. That means if I had her come 2 days a week for 1 month, it would be 2k. I can’t afford that so I have her come once a month. I want to cry with each invoice. And she’s only cleaning bathrooms and floors and dusting! Cleaning help is just very expensive here. So now I find it believable.

What am I missing over here? (I bolded the two points I don't understand)

Does your cleaning lady really make more than a professional with a masters degree, for just cleaning bathroom, floors, and dusting?

I guess I went into the wrong career LOL

coloredleaves

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:06 pm

I pay 600 a week in household help. I work full time and have kids and grandkids over as well and don't want to feel crazy or spend the few hours I'm home cleaning instead of spending time with my kids - they need talking things through homework, appointments to be driven to I don't think 500 a week is a lot at all if you work and have a lot of people in the house . I would not recommend u Rened on support which actually isn't a lot for two kids and if they are fairly new married it could replay hirt your relationship.

The health and housing cost is above average and I'd see if I could work on that.

amother

Vermilion

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

The heloc got used when my husbands equity was below par and we didn’t want to lose money on potential gains. I think it was a mistake in hindsight but at the time it made sense because we thought it was a short dip. (It wasn’t).
Our heloc could potentially be refinanced and raised but I don’t want to be tempted to borrow even more

This line make me think you need a financial advisor. We have a heloc sitting there and we used it only to buy out our lease (it wasn't worth leasing a new car, made more sense to buy it out)
I wouldn't just use our heloc because it's there.

amother

↑ Lemon ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:18 pm

tulip3 wrote:

Your health insurance is a huge chunk. Refuah health share if no one has preexisting conditions might be a good option.

I have mixed feelings on healthshares in general, but this might be a great idea for OP. (assuming, like you mentioned, no one has a preexisting medical condition)...

I think it's $500/month per family, and this can be just temporary until the market turns up and her husband gets more equity payments from his company.

This'll free up thousands per month... Which can be invested with a decent return

amother

Maroon

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:19 pm

I have no advice, just want to say both that I understand you and you have helped me understand my DH so much better. Thank you for that. He manages the finances (I have organizational challenges) and is always stressed about $, which made so little sense to me as I make what you do, and DH makes over $250K.

You made the numbers make sense.
I too have the high mortgage/property tax.
Tuition
The car/health insurance/G&E
Food is expensive.
Household help-if you need child care, telling your kids to do chores is not going to cut it.
Honestly, clothes (sale at Junee’s or the extra top from Costco) is not making the difference.

I feel for you. It is a crazy world we live in. And people assume you have plenty to spare.

amother

Currant ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:21 pm

So your budget is actually coming out to under 27,000 a month but you're saying that you still don't have extra money..

I track every single dollar that we spend by sticking it in a category on a spreadsheet that I made.

That's the only way to know what you're really spending money on.

Here are some things that I spend on as a high income individual that you might also.

Maybe you order things randomly from Amazon that are not 100% necessary but make your life easier or better. Like buying a new mop head instead of washing it, containers for organization, extra undergarments or pajamas.

Yt expenses- almost every month besides for a few there are extra expenses like gifts on chanukkah, mishloach manos & tips, arba minim, decorations, paper goods, pesach, cheesecake, etc. That could add almost $1,000 a month each month over the year.

What about camp?

If you're sending four kids that's about $3,000 a kid times four which is around an extra $1,000 a month spread over the year. Things that we don't think about or seem like only a little bit here or there actually add up to a lot.

I don't remember if you put in anything about clothing?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:31 pm

Clothing is not straightforward. I have a lot of boys so it’s suits and hats as needed usually once a year. The girls are 18 & 20 they but some of their own weekday with camp money and I buy their shabbos clothing. I buy one or two good things a year for shabbos/dressy that I wear for a few years. Weekday is Zara or sales. I send four kids to camp. And yt expenses are crazy.

The problem is for our financial bracket and hours that we work it’s also emotionally draining to just not be making it. As I said before we are in the 650-700 range all in and we’re literally choking.

amother

↑ Lemon ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:35 pm

amother OP wrote:

The problem is for our financial bracket and hours that we work it’s also emotionally draining to just not be making it. As I said before we are in the 650-700 range all in and we’re literally choking.

Wow I am making so much less, but can SO relate to this statement.

amother

↑ Lemon ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:36 pm

amother Currant wrote:

Good tips!

The "every dollar" app is a good budgeting app! Might be easier than excel spreadsheets for those who don't use a computer often

amother

↑ Violet ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:38 pm

amother DarkRed wrote:

I wrote out my Shabbos budget on page 2. Feel free to reference.

Yes but there are so many cuts that can be made, easily. If OP is not making end meet she shouldn't be spending money on cut fruit (!!!) (I’ve literally never bought cut fruit in my entire life) or dips. Just that $40/week adds up to over 2k a year. And those are tiny examples. I bet there are so many cuts to Make.

amother

↑ Plum ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:41 pm

amother Lemon wrote:

You got me! The going rate for Basic cleaning over here is $45/hr. Forget about deep (read: pesach) cleaning. That starts at about $60/hr. I could find someone who’ll do it for the cheap price of $25 or $30 an hour but they’re probably on drugs. 🤷‍♀️ I know it’s not just my city because I joined a cleaning help group and I see similar quotes in most states. Because it’s considered a luxury service they charge luxury prices. I get it’s not a need like food and shelter but I do need it in order to work. It’s not like I’m sitting with my feet up while they clean. It’s very frustrating.

tichellady ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:51 pm

amother DarkRed wrote:

I also spend that much every Shabbos.

Off the top of my head (don't forget if she has married kids they're at least 10 to 11 adults) -

Chicken/cholent meat - $40
Grape juice - $5
Seltzer/water/soda - $15
Challah $20
Dips $20
Gefilte $16
Salmon $30
Chicken soup with lukshen, croutons $12
Side dishes $10
2 doz eggs $10
Salads/vegetables $30
Liver $10
Cold cuts $30
Dessert $30 (cakes, cookies, ice cream etc)
Cut fruit $20
Herring/lox or whatever for shaloshudos $20
Fancy plastic/silverware/napkins etc $20

I'm up to around $350 and I'm sure I forgot something.

Ok, it's a bit on the high end (samon, cold cuts can be optional) but I don't think it's crazy or completely out of the norm. Don't forget these are a lot of adult eaters! (And maybe next time you go to your parents/inlaws and they serve all this you will appreciate it more).

This is totally fine to spend if you can afford it but if someone is trying to cut down on expenses can easily cut down on this list and still have a lovely shababt. Especially with so much cleaning help, cut fruit and fancy disposables can be eliminated. Do you go through a container or grape juice each week? Why do you have to pay for water? Why do you use 2 dozen eggs for Shabbat?

amother

Stone

Sat, Sep 14 2024, 8:48 pm

My husband and I combined make about 220k. I'm just about at the top of my career, meaning, there's not much more room for growth. My husband got his credentials later than me and will probably increase his earnings, but not dramatically.

We have 5 kids, preschool to high school, live in Lakewood.

We own a small house that we bought while our area was cheap. Mortgage is 2500 a month.

We don't have any cleaning help. We don't miss it. Maintaining the house and yard is a family project and we all pitch in.

We keep our food/household items budget to about 2500 a month. We eat pretty simply during the week, and make nice Shabbos seudos. Meat is rare, other than 6$ beef bones for chulant. I do buy chop meat, which around here is often the same or cheaper than chicken, and can be stretched further in dishes like meat lasagna, meatballs , and chilli.

Clothing is pretty easy as I have mostly boys. We buy lots of Amazon basics. We get a lot of hand-me-downs and I buy a lot second hand.

Health insurance, tuition, day camp, 1 sleep away camp, car upkeep....

My husband and I will often look at each other and say 'seems like we should be able to afford that.', knowing that we can't.

When we started our married like together making 220k sounded like a pipe dream. We've worked really hard to get to were we are today. On paper, this is a solid, upper middle class household income. I'm grateful for our life, and for jobs we both really love. I'm grateful we can pay our bills for the most part.

But I'd imagined that getting to this point would mean a stress free life, at least where money is concerned. And of course it isn't.

I don't have any answers. If OP is making 3x what we make and still isn't 'making it', I just don't get it.

realtalk

Sat, Sep 14 2024, 9:27 pm

Did I miss something? You took out money from your HELOC to invest in the stock market? Can you take that money out and pay it off even if it's at a loss? You could probably even write it off your taxes if it's at a loss. If you're waiting for the market to recover and your HELOC interest rate is at 8%, you aren't making any money off of it anyway. $2k/mo on an individual debt is actually insane

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Sat, Sep 14 2024, 9:38 pm

amother Plum wrote:

Cleaning help is a luxury service. And why shouldn't they charge they need to support themselves too. I'm going to assume 45/hr is for a crew and not just one person.