I just can’t understand it-and I can’t take it either!

amother

↑ Pewter ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 4:57 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

Why can’t you pay less in health insurance?
Is child health plus a possibility at all ?
Even at their highest income , you pay much less per kid than private insurance

The adults still need coverage. I imagine some of the 8 children are over the CHP age as well. And not to sound like a snob but at that income level I would not want to be busy trying to find doctors who take the CHP plans and chasing referrals.

amother

Melon

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 4:59 pm

I just googled what heloc is. You pay 7500/mo in housing? Thats almost double my personal income 😲 I think the famous david Ramsey would maybe say "you have too much house."

You can probably save like 4000 a month if you moved, no? Even to a rental, for goodness sake, if that's what you have to...

(And it's hard to wrap my head around 2k Household help)

Unless I'm missing something... I'm not financially savvy

amother

Ebony ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:00 pm

I’m seeing 27k a month not 30k. You should be sitting down with mesila but also with an accountant to see if you can pay less to Uncle Sam and keep more of your money. Are either of you self employed. Often there are deductions available that can make a huge dent in your tax bill. Is there a way to pay less tuition and make a charitable donation that is tax deductible instead? Can some income be under your married kids who have a lower marginal rate? Etc.

Mortgage and Heloc are what they are but keep an eye out for a refi if rates continue to come down.

With that much spending you can open credit cards and score 30-40 k in account opening bonuses and 2% cash back per year or more that can be used for vacations or towards your monthly budget, but you have to be very disciplined and pay back the credit cards each month.

SnowLeopard

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:01 pm

I’m sorry, it doesn’t seem to be easy for anyone these days. Something that gave us more insight was calculating all housing and fixed costs- mortgage, interest, home insurance, health insurance, gardener, exterminator, phone, internet, tuition, etc. All the things that are unlikely to change on their own.

Then work from there and build a budget for different flexible categories- groceries, yom tov (lulav/esrog, mishloach manos, etc), clothing. If there isnt enough left for the basics in the flexible categories, then you have to look at which fixed expenses can be changed.

Keep in mind to use post-tax earnings to calculate these.

Hatzlacha!

amother

DarkRed ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:10 pm

I really think it is worth it for you to pay for someone to help you figure it out, whether its Mesilah or somebody else.

The income is there, but until you address how you got to the point where you are, you'll be playing whack-a-mole. Damage control but not much else.

You really CAN gain control of your finances but in order to do that you will really need to do a LOT of work, and you can't do it on your own.

(I work in a finance related field so I do have some insight).

ETA: I just want to add that I believe you that it's really hard! We also make what I think is considered a decent income and we are month to month. Just basics such as mortgage, tuition and food is a fortune and can swallow up all your income!!! I think everyone is suffering these days.

amother

Thistle

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:11 pm

We net about 50k a month and also spend about 30k. I feel like we live in a very nice house but not jaw dropping. Have a summer home,go on nice vacations,kids do extracurricular activities. We have fewer kids then you and no marrieds so there’s more room

amother

↑ Fuchsia

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:12 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

Ok at least some of this is wrong .
Depending on income , but still I pay for 4 kids, and the rest are all free .
CHP has no copays & no needed referals besides regular
All regular pediatricians take .
Some specialists are harder to find , but they exists .
And for all kids combined, I pay $45/ month.
I think versus private insurance, it’s saving few k a month .
Yea adults need separate insurance.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:12 pm

The heloc got used when my husbands equity was below par and we didn’t want to lose money on potential gains. I think it was a mistake in hindsight but at the time it made sense because we thought it was a short dip. (It wasn’t).
Our heloc could potentially be refinanced and raised but I don’t want to be tempted to borrow even more

amother

Plum ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:21 pm

amother Melon wrote:

If you would have asked me a few years ago I would have also had a hard time wrapping my head around that much $$ for household help. However, considering I just paid my cleaning lady $520 for TWO days of work (over 2 months), it’s not so hard to believe. That means if I had her come 2 days a week for 1 month, it would be 2k. I can’t afford that so I have her come once a month. I want to cry with each invoice. And she’s only cleaning bathrooms and floors and dusting! Cleaning help is just very expensive here. So now I find it believable.

amother

Alyssum

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:26 pm

Wow just wow.
I guess it doesn't pay to make more money. We have 6 kids and struggling on about 180k gross income. We get tuition breaks, have a much smaller mortgage and live very simply. But if I thought making another 50-100 would do it, I guess it definitely won't. I should stop stressing. Hatzlocha!!

amother

Wisteria ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:34 pm

300-400 just for shabbos? What are you buying? You said you just have chicken on Shabbos, not meat. But you could buy each family member their own package of chicken for that much money!

Ok, so lets say you spend $80 on chicken and cholent meat. $30 wine and grape juice, $30 challah, $50 produce, $10 dessert. That's $200. What else do you need? Fish? Maybe $15 for gefilte. $20 for dips.

This is just assuming most of your food is store bought. Making challah and dips would be cheaper. But I'm still not seeing how you're reaching 300-400 just for Shabbos every week.

amother

DarkViolet ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:40 pm

amother Melon wrote:

Just saying our income is 350k. And housing costs us 7k a month on our mortgage.

Our house is 2,400 square feet! 20 min away from the heart of town etc .

With interest rates these days mortgage expense is insane.

amother

↑ DarkViolet ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:41 pm

amother Alyssum wrote:

This is very true. If you own your house for sure!

amother

↑ DarkRed ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:00 pm

amother Wisteria wrote:

I also spend that much every Shabbos.

Off the top of my head (don't forget if she has married kids they're at least 10 to 11 adults) -

Chicken/cholent meat - $40
Grape juice - $5
Seltzer/water/soda - $15
Challah $20
Dips $20
Gefilte $16
Salmon $30
Chicken soup with lukshen, croutons $12
Side dishes $10
2 doz eggs $10
Salads/vegetables $30
Liver $10
Cold cuts $30
Dessert $30 (cakes, cookies, ice cream etc)
Cut fruit $20
Herring/lox or whatever for shaloshudos $20
Fancy plastic/silverware/napkins etc $20

I'm up to around $350 and I'm sure I forgot something.

Ok, it's a bit on the high end (samon, cold cuts can be optional) but I don't think it's crazy or completely out of the norm. Don't forget these are a lot of adult eaters! (And maybe next time you go to your parents/inlaws and they serve all this you will appreciate it more).

amother

Lemon ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 6:02 pm

amother Teal wrote:

525k minus taxes isn't much more than 360k.
Cars can be cheaper. Help can be cut down. Support can stop. Your mortgage is high, and so are your health insurance costs. That's tough. I suggest buying a used car for each of you so your monthly payments stop. Also, mobilize your kids to help around the house. Cut it to 500 a month in help. So between dropping support (2k), cutting car payments (1k), saving on household help (1.5k), you can have some breathing room for about 4.5k. That should help a lot. Good luck!

This is the way.

If I was Dave ramsey I would say the following:

Buy beater cars in cash and ditch the car payments (your car insurance will be lower too). Obviously this needs to make sense for you.. But it's an idea. (I personally drive a 2007 Honda and am very happy... No car payments! Whoo!)

That's 12k+ per year freed up.

Shop at Aldi and/or Walmart for everyrhing food-related that you possibly can (canned goods, nosh, drinks, etc). Use Walmart plus for deliveries if you can't manage the trips to your local WM. This will SIGNIFICANTLY cut your grocery expenses.

Stop paying the 2k per month is support if you can... I know this really might not be possible, but only you know your own circumstances.

Can you get cheaper help? That seems on the high side. You need to evaluate what this help is for, how your kids can help to fill in, and what can be reasonably trimmed down.

Right there, implementing some of these ideas can save you tens of thousands per year.

Hatzlocha OP! ❤️