Naming conundrum- what to do

amother

Slateblue ↓

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 7:11 pm

A. I second the idea of turning to a rav to help you talk it out, together. Not for the rav to give the final say, but to give some guidance. Of course if your husband goes on his own and gives over the question with his subjective view, he'll likely end up with a different answer, or a less complete answer than you'd get if you went together and got to give over your own view in your own words.
B. I never quite got this ruach hakodesh business, since we always picked out the name together way in advance, as soon as we learned the gender. Nothing about a name either felt right or wrong. We picked each for the reasons we picked them, sometimes after someone or sometimes because we loved the name, and had the baby, and named the baby, with no sudden switches or different feelings.
C. I'm not either a fan of naming after someone who you feel no connection to. I'm also especially not a fan of giving a name that you have no connection to and also was already named after many, many times. If there is a connection though, the strength of the connection can outweigh the large amount of children already given the name. I lost two siblings, and there are already many children named after each, BH, but I still lovingly gave each name because I loved my siblings dearly. But there's a great grandmother and a grandfather on the other side that already have both been named after so many times on the other side. So the great grandmother, who even my husband didn't know, there's no chance I wanted to name after her. But the grandfather, who my husband loved, knew, and misses, I would still name after even though there are so many already named after him, especially since it will give his widow so much nechama even now. I will just try to give a different nickname so at least my kid feels unique that way and not just one of the many.

amother

Tomato ↓

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 8:52 pm

amother Jetblack wrote:

Naming after relatives you never met is what creates the connection. Not always do you name because there is already a connection. I'm so grateful to have been named after a great grandmother I never met ( holocaust victim) it definitely creates a connection to generations past, like I didn't just fall out of the sky.

Beautiful, 100% agree with this sentiment.

It's especially helpful if you still have a relative that remembers him and can tell you more about him so that you DO feel connected. What a beautiful way to strengthen a family legacy.

My mother had a distant cousin who died as a young boy during the holocaust. He was buried in a Christian cemetery in Europe. 40 years later, my uncle arranged to have him reinterred in Eretz Yisrael. My SIL gave her son his name as a second name, and now he will have some remembrance for the future, as well as remembering the chessed my uncle did in reinterring him in a Jewish cemetery. It's so beautiful.

OP, why would you not want to find out more about your family and the people behind the names?

amother

↑ Tomato

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 9:01 pm

amother Slateblue wrote:

...

C. I'm not either a fan of naming after someone who you feel no connection to. I'm also especially not a fan of giving a name that you have no connection to and also was already named after many, many times.

...

To me, this smacks of ingratitude and selfishness, complete self-absorption, especially if it's a direct relative, like a great-grandmother or great-grandfather.

They gave their lives for their families. Do you know how hard life was a few generations ago?
Just because you never met them, you don't appreciate what they've done? How you or your spouse wouldn't be here without them?

Or if it's a non-linear relative, but a great-aunt or uncle who doesn't have their own family to name after them? How sad. Could you imagine if you were CHV in that situation... to lose your name among your family members because no one "felt close" to you? Heartbreaking.

I say this as someone who comes from a family that ALWAYS puts family first. No one just picks out a name they like. That's not our mesorah.

When my sister had to add a name to my niece, she picked the name of our grandfather's sister-in-law. She wasn't a blood relative, but her husband was a big rav in a small town, and their whole family died in the war. She had no descendants to name after her. Now we remember her and her story, and my niece's name is a testament to her life. My sister wasn't "connected" to the name, but she adores that name now.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 9:07 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

Here's what I think:
I do believe in naming after family,but I also think it's your "turn". Traditionally mom gets first name but since you switched for 1 and 2, now it's your turn again.
Don't you have any relatives on your side with a name you like? Even if a distant relative?

So the issue isn’t really about turn taking, but I know that it only makes sense to take turns for us and if I take this one then he’ll get the next and we don’t know gender this time, and there’s one name that I really want (and we both agree on -from my side) so I won’t take the opposite gender now…

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 9:08 pm

amother DarkGray wrote:

Sit down with the Rav and don't destroy shalom bayis.

Was this grandfather loved? A good person? Maybe that's why so many are named after him.

I think taking turns is a smart thing.

And technically its his turn since you reversed the order.

And yes, a lot of women like names that are "nice".

So everyone is right. But how do you keep the peace and get along?

Thanks for validating the “nice” part.

It’s so hard to deal with this… and it’s making me so nervous. I like to know everything in advance and I know how I feel right after birth and I would rather not have any important discussions then.

amother

↑ OP

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 9:12 pm

amother Jetblack wrote:

I will say this, he loved that grandparent but I really don’t like the name. It’s two names, one of them is pareve and one of them I can’t think of a single (and for lack of any other word) with it person with that name.
Now throw tomatoes and potatoes, but the grandchildren with that name all have a certain “look” which I def don’t like.

amother

Gardenia

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 9:38 pm

amother OP wrote:

So I have a question I myself think is weird, so bear with me.
Our first born went to husbands side for a close relative that passed away ant that time and the second child to my side, for a favorite grandparent. We are now due with the third one TYH and our options are either to give after relatives which I have never met (passed away too many years before I was born) and don’t feel any connection to or after a grandparent of husband of which there are already 15 children named for.
While I don’t love (read: don’t connect to it at all) the name of that grandparent, what irks me more is that there is nothing special about being “another” one with that name.
Husband claims that before we give names we like and choose out of a hat we must honor our family members. I claim that parents must “feel something”.
Who’s right and what do I make of it?

Why are those the only choices? Can you name the baby something meaningful that has to do with the time of year he/she will be born? Or a name from the parsha that week? A name for a Rabbi or Rebbetzin that has been a mentor to you or who is important to your community?

If you only do name for a relative, maybe this is a good time to learn about your ancestors and find a name that you like or whose meaning embodies the middos you want your child to have or whose life you want your child to emulate.

We also didn't name traditionally. I got the first name and was able to name for my grandmother, which was very important to me. But after that DH got to pick the next few names because I still had all my other grandparents and he didn't. He also comes from a very small family and had many relatives who weren't already named for, whereas anyone else on my side I might have considered naming for one of my siblings or cousins already had. One of my pregnancies we intended to name the baby after DH's grandmother, but DH changed his mind halfway through the pregnancy and decided to name for a great-grandmother instead since no one on his side had ever named for her and his grandmother was sure to get a name eventually (she did, a few years later). That turned out to be the right decision, as our daughter's name was in the haftorah the week she was born a few weeks early and it really suits her. I have another child named for DH's grandfather and I don't love the name but I got used to it and love it for my son. Sometimes we just go along to get along and live with the results.

Whatever you decide OP, it should be with mazel. B'shaa tova!

amother

Almond

Mon, Aug 26 2024, 9:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

I have a hard time giving names that I have a 'negative' connotation with. I name for relatives when I like the name, or if it's 2 names, at least one of them I can call it by. It's very hard to give a child a name you don't love and have to call him by it.

Meanwhile my husband unfortunately lost a parent and of course we will give that name when the time comes. So far Hashem didn't test me with a child of that gender (we have 3 of the other gender since then), but I will have a hard time with it because of other people I know with that name. We would probably add another name and call them by that.

amother

↑ DarkGray

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 6:17 am

amother OP wrote:

How would you feel if he was against giving a name of a relative of yours that you loved and were close to?

See, that doesn't come across as a good thing to do to your spouse.

And I totally am with you on those names that you just can't because of the people with that name all x,y,z. I know what you mean.

So either way you can sit with a Rav about seeing if he would alter one name or add a third.

Alternatively, they say that what you are called by also has an effect. So maybe an original nickname would help.

It is a tough spot for you to be in emotionally. I completely understand that and empathize, this child means the world to you & you want the best for them.

But the right thing to do is not really to have your way here. Hopefully a compromise or a nickname will work out.

Maybe the zechus of you doing what you don't want to and what is good for sholom bayis will be a merit for the child &/or your family.

amother

Crimson ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 6:27 am

amother OP wrote:

I have never met any grandparents and obviously have no connection, and that’s the precise reason why I name after them, tp establish the connection and continuity that weren’t there.

amother

↑ Crimson

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 6:41 am

amother OP wrote:

Maybe dig deeper in his family for a fun name.
Our first kid was my mil‘s uncle
Our second kid was my grandma
I decided that our third should be my fil‘s father. He had a really obsolete name so we found a more modern version. Everyone was happy except for the mil who is divorced from fil, but I feel I have a solid ground for using this name and dh is happy.

amother

↑ Slateblue ↓

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 7:00 am

amother Tomato wrote:

Wow. You do realize not everyone views life the same way you do? "Naming after" is clearly a humongous part of your life and so if someone chooses not to, it's some horrible dramatic selfish choice. In our family, it's totally not. It's nice if one has the desire to, but nobody blinks if someone goes their own route; among my extended family we've named after family, named Tanach names, and even given non-Tanach names. And every baby is welcomed and loved and nobody judges or pressures anyone based on the personal choice they made for their own kid. (I'm also going to bet that in families where there is such pressure given to pass on every name, everyone has an opinion on which name has to be given and if someone doesn't give the name someone wanted there's disappointment. BH by us there's only joy and excitement.)

Also, we're a large extended family, so even if I personally don't choose a name, someone else usually already has at least once. About the only name I can think of (on both sides!) that wasn't given yet is because the person themself didn't like their name, was given a switched-gender name after someone and wanted it to go back to the other gender once people name after them.

So you can calm down about self-absorption and ingratitude. We're all nice lovely people here who just don't think about the practice of handing down names on the same level as you do. In fact, we're more into the importance of the concept of "respect others' choices and don't be insulting about them."

amother

↑ Powderblue

Tue, Aug 27 2024, 2:34 pm

amother OP wrote:

IOW, you only have this problem with one gender and you don't know yet if you'll be having this gender? Then sit tight and you'll work it out after baby is born. You might be fretting for nothing.

B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Wed, Sep 04 2024, 8:01 pm

There is a reason we dont name unborn babies or decide on names. As others have written , the name is "born" with the child, and you will know it, and it will be right. Take a deep breath, focus on what needs to be done today and know that this baby will have the most amazing and appropriate name because Hashem will make that happen. The mere fact that this is an issue between you is just the Yetzer Haras work. (like your dh demeaning your wanting to choose a name outside the family as "cute").

Im not telling you what to do, but we never discussed names before the birth. Too emotional. After birth its so much clearer. You can ask a Rav after the birth if you still have a conundrum. Although, I dont think this is a halachic situation.

Is there someone pressuring your husband on this? Thats totally normal and please dont blame them (one day you will be the Bubby asking your granddaughter to name for your dear Grandmother who was so special but your granddaughter never met her...) . Recognize it for what it is, and remind yourself that the name will be born with the child. It will be SO clear after the birth.

I have seen men firmly in one camp - take one look at the baby and change their minds. So try not to make this a SB issue when you pregnant. When dh brings it up, tell him, lets discuss this later, not now. It will be clearer later.

May you shep much nachas from all your children and have an easy and healthy delivery Bezras Hashem.

amother

↑ Slateblue ↓

Wed, Sep 04 2024, 8:06 pm

So what happens if you know in advance you will be naming after someone specifically, and when the baby is born you just go ahead and do so, and nothing every feels right or wrong about it, it's just a decision that was already made? Did I miraculously get the ruach hakodesh 3 years before I ever conceived?

Also, the same way I appreciate that none of our parents, grandparents, or any other relatives ever even made a peep about what we should name our child but instead left it solely up to us, that's exactly what we'll be doing for our children and grandchildren one day. My mother told me how she had such pressure from her relatives about naming the babies, and never could please everyone, she learned to never pressure anyone about a name, and I learned from her to do the same.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Wed, Sep 04 2024, 8:27 pm

amother Slateblue wrote:

I had pressure. and that was OK.
I understood this was a different generation, and I understood it came from love, not manipulation. I never allowed the pressure to affect me. I never judged my parents, or in laws on this. It was their way of remembering and respecting their parents/grandparents, nothing more.
And if I didnt do what they asked, I didnt feel like I failed them and they never said "why didnt you".
Just my take.