Parents of children who receive P3/SETSS do you realize...

amother

↑ Seagreen ↓

Mon, Sep 02 2024, 8:04 pm

octopus wrote:

That's terrible planning on the school's part! The school doesn't have to pay a penny for a resource room, they should really utilize this gift better!(it really is a gift from the city! No other city provided these types of services like NYC).

If there is a shortage of providers it could be the school felt it would be better the child received some help in a group rather than no help. Things don't always work out perfectly for many reasons.

↑ octopus ↓

Mon, Sep 02 2024, 8:08 pm

amother Seagreen wrote:

Then the provider shouldn't take all the hours. She should only see the student for the actual time she's doing the mandated subject. Billing for a student that needs help in math and only doing reading for some sessions is dishonest. Sorry. Leave some hours over and let mom decide if she can get someone after school hours to fill in. I hate this type of garbage.

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Sep 02 2024, 8:18 pm

You may work as a SEIT but you clearly don’t have the full picture. Your use of the term “cut” is proof enough. You have some truth sprinkled in but the reality is a lot more complex. While this situation is unfortunate and based on less than ideal behavior by many, convincing parents to do anything but work with their child’s school in unhelpful. Yes, be knowledgeable and advocate but try not to fight those that are doing their best to help you.

Parents should know their rights not based on your message. Easiest thing would be to actually read what the DOE sent to parents. It’s actually very clear and easy to read.

BrachaVHatzlocha ↓

Mon, Sep 02 2024, 8:55 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

I beg forgiveness from any therapist who don't do any of the above. In some parts of nyc unfortunately this is very common (which is why BOE understandably is cracking down)
..if you are a privider working under an agency-the agency was making that full enhanced enhanced rate and you got about a third. ...

If I worked 35 minutes, I billed for 35 minutes. No agency can change what I put in, as they don't know my schedule and may see another child right before/after that child not through their agency. I'm sure there are people who abused the system but to think it's very common... I sure hope not...

↑ octopus

Mon, Sep 02 2024, 10:20 pm

BrachaVHatzlocha wrote:

You can put in for 35 minutes? I thought it's by the quarter hours.you can put in 15, 30,45,60

amother

Papaya ↓

Mon, Sep 02 2024, 10:48 pm

amother Nutmeg wrote:

My family has been honest, billing only for actual sessions and gives the full time but hears of those who bill for the hour yet sees the students for 30 minutes.

What exactly are they saying happens here- the provider bills from 9:00 to 10:00, only sees the child from 9-9:30, and then sits around doing nothing for the next half hour? Cuz they can't bill for another kid during that time slot. I worked as a P3 for a number of years and never saw things like that happening. And how did no coordinator in the school see that happening? Also, how does it never happen that there's an overlap because another provider legitimately worked with the child from 9:30 to 10, let's say?

amother

↑ Papaya

Mon, Sep 02 2024, 10:53 pm

I worked as a P3 on salary for a school for a number of years and then worked for an agency. When I worked for the school, they packed my day as much as they could, and I never got to work with a child 1-on-1 unless the others in the group all happened to be absent. Typically the group size was for however many children in that class had services, 3 on average but up to 5. (If it was more than 5, they split it into two groups.) And the schedule was so hard to work out as is, every moment of the day was filled, there was no chance I could have seen the kids separately as there wasn't enough time in the day.

Once I started working for an agency, they had enhanced rates and I was able to see children either 1-on-1 or in a group of 2. If they hadn't been on an enhanced rate the agency likely would have required me to work with more children and then I definitely would have had to group them again.

amother

Poppy

Mon, Sep 02 2024, 11:56 pm

I live OOT and services are different here. But as a provider and a parent of a kid with special needs- my kids IEP said either individual or small group. If it was individual they could not ethically and legally be given small group. We had to follow what was written...

Are providers/agencies not following that and billing individual when it was group or not giving the right services? Because so many threads here seem to imply that kids aren't getting what they were mandated to have...

amother

IndianRed ↓

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 7:11 am

amother Papaya wrote:

One of the reasons the BOE is cracking down is because the times the agencies submitted did overlap and times were also billed for hours that didn't make sense.

As far as groups, it simply is not effective in our schools. They don't pair the childrenby subject, it's pretty random. If you have a couple of kids for an hour session doing math and reading, mostly working in hallways, lunchroom or other not ideal locations where they're being distracted, some b of that hour is used to get the students and send them back to the classrooms ( and I'm not going to discuss some of the providers who chip off time for the reports) not much time is actually being spent teaching said student with the required subject.

And for $85 per session, that is not acceptable. Years ago, before schools decided they "deserve" a cut, parents had the choice to pick their own providers for setts and children actually learned!!

At this point, parents are having a difficult time finding good providers because the schools and agencies are scrambling to keep getting their cut.....

amother

↑ Ghostwhite ↓

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 9:23 am

amother Papaya wrote:

The providers doing so cover the extra time by billing for different hours than actually working outsideof schooltime. They need to play a whole tetris game to make all their hours work along with the child's other services. It's a very difficult game to play correctly...the school coordinators (at least in my experience) are paid for by agency who's also giving bonuses to school. Being that therapist got paid " very little " from agency those going private to make full enhanced rate or fill in more hours are doing it without the school coordinators knowledge

Molly Weasley

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 10:11 am

amother Poppy wrote:

Most NYC mandates allow for small groups of 5 or 8.

amother

↑ Seagreen ↓

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 10:48 am

amother IndianRed wrote:

So you think every child should get 1:1 services? How does a classroom teacher teach a whole class?? Kids can learn fine in a small group. And in my kids schools there are math groups, reading groups, etc...really not such a big deal.

amother

↑ Ghostwhite

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 10:53 am

amother Seagreen wrote:

If the group is working and each child is fine with that then so am I as long as it is being billed as group session and not as individual sessions for each child....

amother

Honeysuckle ↓

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 11:00 am

I’m a setss provider for many years . Your 1:1 dream was soley bc of Covid bc they didn’t allow groups - so everyone shifted to what is called enhanced rates . So children were being serviced 1:1 that was - for the last 20 years all children were seen in groups and direct through the DOE .
few agencies are trying to hang on while everyone else pretty much shut down .
So your child being seen in group is the regular norm - just the 3 years of Covid changed it .

↑ BrachaVHatzlocha

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 12:38 pm

octopus wrote:

You can put in for 35 minutes? I thought it's by the quarter hours.you can put in 15, 30,45,60

When billing directly to doe, can bill for any number of minutes. Only agencies/apps dont always work by the minute.
(My first year I actually billed to the minute but then found out it was a problem with a different area of paperwork. So since then I do by 5 minutes)

amother

↑ Seagreen

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 12:43 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

If the group is working and each child is fine with that then so am I as long as it is being billed as group session and not as individual sessions for each child....

Why would you assume the provider is billing it individual? Assume the provider sees 5 groups of 3 per day...how would she realistically bill for 15 individual sessions?

seeker ↓

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 1:43 pm

Trying to figure out whether I have time and energy to try to sort you people out. So much misinformation. I've been doing this for 15 years, individual and several different agencies, enhanced and not, before-during-after covid, parent and provider, and those of you who haven't are incorrect about a whole bunch of things - not even sure where to start.

amother

↑ Honeysuckle

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 1:58 pm

seeker wrote:

Same girl same - it’s frustrating to read these comments that are completely false and misguided . Moreover , OP sounds extremely jel.

amother

↑ IndianRed

Tue, Sep 03 2024, 9:28 pm

seeker wrote:

Please do. We can do with some clarity