Can the older generation alleviate the housing crises?

↑ essie14 ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 12:35 pm

amother Brunette wrote:

The op is complaining about large homes where older ppl live alone ( but they are there year round). I was just pointing out that there are plenty of homes that stay empty for about 10 months of the year. So the community doesn’t grow and those who need homes are out priced and outstocked. This happened on my children’s blocks and on my block.

That's a completely different story.
For example, the city of Jerusalem has major issues with ghost apartments and they've enacted laws and policies because of it.
That's not an issue where I live.
DH and I are among the "pioneers" of our community. We moved in when there was 1 small shul, no resources, no amenities.
We, and the few other families, worked hard to develop this neighborhood into the community that it is now. We all took a huge risk and bought homes here and now the community is thriving and prices rose. Of course they did, because a lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into building this community. So for young people to waltz in and expect me to sell my house for less than market value, because my kids are grown and the house is "too big" for us (why does anyone think they get to make these decisions for other people?), reeks of entitlement.
You know why this community is so popular and in demand?
Because 20 families worked hard to establish it!
People are clambering to live here now and DH and I deserve to get a return on our investment.
You want cheap housing? Go move to a small/unestablished community.
You want to live in a thriving, vibrant community? Well, someone had to come before you and make that happen. It didn't happen by accident. Now you have to pay the price for that which the market commands. I don't make the rules. It's economics 101.

amother

↑ Birch ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 12:38 pm

amother Tanzanite wrote:

Seriously people.

Everyone is acting like op wants to force people out of their home. She never said that.

She pointed out something. Shes wondering how to make this a cultural phenomenon, not a "force".

And once people warm up to the idea AND THEIR FRIENDS DO IT many follow.

What op is talking about is happening right now in Flatbush as one early 70s couple and older after another movres out and decamps to Enclave or Fairways (55+ communities) in the Lakewood area. Literally 75% of my friends with parents in the demographic have had this happen. And its snowballing as they see more and more of their friends move.

And please dont nitpick on the details. The point is people copy eachother anf its becomes a culural phenomena.

Because lets be real, yes tge 50 to mid 60 year olds are using their large homes to home their teens and twenties and host multiple families on a steady basis. At the other end, as other have noted, it very agong for the very elderly to move - but thats like 80s and so.

Your early 70s is vibrant and driving, but slowing down. Look around. Most that age are going to their kids, not hosting. Thet are finding it hard to keep up with a large home that sees guests more and more rarely.
However, they have gotten used to having soace. They still want bedrooms to host sometimes. A spacious condo would work really well. Lakewood has great properties for this, sounds like ops community could use it too.

There are actually articles about this problem in the regular media. People at this stage would downsize but there aren't enough properties that meet their needs so they stay put. That makes these houses unattainable for the young families

I think op is trying to say how can we (1) change the culture (2) develop appealing options, so houses become available.

so you all do that
you your families your people

amother

↑ Sapphire ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 12:40 pm

essie14 wrote:

I mean for you to forgo your house for your own kids.

amother

↑ Brunette ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 1:31 pm

essie14 wrote:

My sons did what you did. And ppl did buy summer homes there. Davka because there is now infrastructure that our sons and friends worked very hard to build. Similar to what happened Yerushalayim.

↑ essie14 ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 1:33 pm

amother Sapphire wrote:

I mean for you to forgo your house for your own kids.

Sorry, my kids aren't King Charles who gets to live in his Mommy's palace. My kids will work hard and buy homes they can afford just like the rest of the world does. If they happen to buy near us, great!
If not, we will be happy for them to be establishing their independence.
Neither set of our parents live near us.
I don't think any of our kids want to stay in our community. Their married friends are all moving to younger communities.

amother

↑ Vermilion ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 2:08 pm

amother Darkblue wrote:

I know in the Netherlands (Amsterdam) it’s the worst, the Torah community really needs to grow a normal house is already Round 1.000.000 or more and a 3 bed room flat is 8k. The community is doing nothing they just say you should move to the UK, Antwerp or make Aliya. Renting a house is 4.000 and an apartment is 2.500 it’s beyond crazy

A three bedroom apartment in Zurich cost between 3800 and 5000 swiss francs a month.

amother

↑ Watermelon ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 2:19 pm

amother Brunette wrote:

That's just too bad though. Unless you own the community you can't make rules over who can buy what house.

amother

↑ Denim ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 2:25 pm

amother Sapphire wrote:

I mean for you to forgo your house for your own kids.

Explain why I need to forgo my house even for my own kids. I sweated and saved to buy it all with my own money, no one helped us do it. It's mine! Is it suddenly something that now belongs to them just because they think they now need it more then I do? What kind of attitude is that?
I hate to break it to you but that's not how life works.

amother

Linen

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 2:57 pm

Wow, how is this at 11 pages? I'm only up to page 2, and it's just the same thing over and over.
I'm so far behind, so this may have been said, but losing patience in reading at the moment, lol.

It sounds like OP said that there are no houses on the market, affordable or otherwise. (Either I'm reading wrong, or other people are)

My opinion, you have 2 choices.
Either, talk to heads of the community. (Get a group of friends together in the same position to go with you) and ask of it's possible to extend the eruv. Extend the community.

Or.
Move.

There isn't any other option. 🤷‍♀️

amother

Lotus ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 2:58 pm

OP the way you've written it makes it feel bad.
I do think that some kind of incentive for people who no longer need huge houses to enable them to sell at market prices and move in to something more suited to their needs could be healthy all around.

The problem is how are you going to arrange that?
Let's say the community built assisted living projects for older people with options of different sized apartments and people who were living in big houses who were selling to young locals got first options on apartments there. That could work but which community is going to organize that?

I don't think this is a problem in all communities. Brooklyn - yes. Gateshead in the UK - for sure. But other places, people just move further out. Then what used to be the main community becomes a more retirement community and the outer places are the happening areas.

Take Manchester in the UK. People have just moved further and further out. Used to be only Salford and Prestwich. Now Upper Broughton, Lower Broughton, Crumpsall etc. The people complaining about the lack of housing are people who aren't flexible about moving further out.

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 3:23 pm

essie14 wrote:

Sorry, my kids aren't King Charles who gets to live in his Mommy's palace. My kids will work hard and buy homes they can afford just like the rest of the world does. If they happen to buy near us, great!
If not, we will be happy for them to be establishing their independence.
Neither set of our parents live near us.

I don't think any of our kids want to stay in our community. Their married friends are all moving to younger communities.

"Younger community." Should there be such a thing?

Is it GOOD that your community has become an older community and lost its appeal to the young marrieds?

It's also that the young marrieds can't afford to be near you or with you. Obviously. You dealt with the distance from your own parents, but maybe that doesn't have to happen again.

amother

↑ Denim ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 3:29 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Who says the distance needs to be a bad thing? We raise our kids to be independent and make their own way. Of course we're here if they need anything, they can call or come visit and we're happy to help if they need it, but they're OK on their own.
They don't need us to hold their hands with every decision they make and they don't need to be within walking distance.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be wonderful to have them close by, but only if they can make it on their own here. They don't need to have my house in order to be close to mommy.

↑ essie14 ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 3:30 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

There are plenty of young people in our community. It's very mixed. It's just not the type of young newlyweds my kids associate with. And there's nothing wrong with that. Some young people actually want to build up newer communities. And some want to move into more established communities. My community is far from old. DH and I are among the oldest and we're upper 40s/low 50s LOL

amother

↑ RosePink ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 3:31 pm

amother Vermilion wrote:

A three bedroom apartment in Zurich cost between 3800 and 5000 swiss francs a month.

I don't know what the Swiss dollar is vis a vis the US dollar but the rent isn't particularly high for many rentals in desirable areas in the USA.

It doesn't shock me. New York City is more than that for a one bedroom apartment let alone a three bedroom apartment.

I still don't understand exactly what OP wants to happen.

If OP wants her parents to give her the home and they move into the basement, ask them just like a child would theoretically ask parents for them to "gift" them with a large sum of money.

And since the house is probably the single most valuable asset most people have and is used to fund retirement why would this lower the price of housing as they would sell it for fair market value if they wanted to move.

↑ essie14 ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 3:31 pm

amother Denim wrote:

Bingo.
That's how DH and I were raised and how we are raising our children.

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Wed, Aug 28 2024, 3:56 pm

amother RosePink wrote:

Maybe the house stays the property of the parents, no "give her the home." And yet, while retaining ownership, the grandparents move to either a guest room or a well decorated and equipped basement.

The young couple would pay most or a lot of the house's maintenance expenses. They wouldn't be boarding there for free. That would free up some of the grandparents' income.

OP is living in 400 square feet right now, with husband and two children. They both work. So they have income. That income could go toward their parents' house's expenses.

They would certainly continue to buy their own food and other needs, as before.

They would be giving their money to their parents, instead of to their present landlord.

"Money for retirement" often means "money for assisted housing or smaller housing." Well if your son-in-law is housing you, by working and paying your house's expenses instead of an apartment's rent, then you aren't worrying about "money for retirement."