My view on OTD kids

↑ bgr8ful

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 1:31 am

Hudis1998 wrote:

What really bothers me is that people tie belief in G-d to being happy and successful. I know many non jews from my work, most of them are religious xtians and 2 muslims. I asked them about it and no one ever said they'd give up faith if they were in troubled situations. I just can't understand why it would be an excuse to give up emunah, if someone has a troubled life. Yes, it might not be easy and they might stop keeping halacha to the fullest extent but why would someone give up faith? Unless that faith was weak to begin with. If a non jew can do it, I'm sure any of us can...after all we are called maaminim bnei maaminim...

sweetie, if you think the christian and muslim communities dont have an otd problem too you're sorely mistaken.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:01 am

Hudis1998 wrote:

Quote:

Unfortunately, many of these people were never shown the true beauty of yiddishkeit and were raised in messed up houses. My uncle raised his kids well but my aunt always bashes "the system" and I think that's one of the main reason why my cousin went off, because of the vibe of negativity always being a major element of their Shabbos table conversations.

And many WERE shown the beauty.
You have a VERY narrow view. And unrealistic too.

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My aunt is a BT and also exposes her kids to all her non frum family which I think had an impact on my cousin. Like they second he said he does not want to keep Shabbos anymore his grandparents invited him and even sent him on a non-Jewish camp RL where he was eating treif and being mechalel Shabbos

And we have rhe opposite, not frum family and having those family members come to shabbat meals. The exposure made us STRONGER in our yiddishkeit.

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Also, BT's should not overly expose their kids to non-frum relatives as this can be detrimental to a person's yiddishkeit. Be proud of who you are, there is no reason that we should have to stay in touch with them unless they respect our way of life, without any type of criticism or negativity.

Again, this seems to be your specific experience. Mine us completely opposite to you and yours.

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If raised with positivity and a proud Jewish identity, any kid that chas v'shalom runs into any issues will be in the 1st category and not the 2nd.

No, not always.

amother

Orange

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:09 am

Quote:

Wow…. I’m a bt and my parents eat pork etc but I will never don’t let them see my kids. Stay in Lakewood hakodesh with all your frum relatives and keep your opinions to your self

amother

Lightgreen

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:11 am

Hudis1998 wrote:

Firstly, I'm sure you also know many jews who wouldn't give up their faith in troubled situations. So you hit on some non jews.
But also, Christianity and Muslim beliefs are about sacrifice. That the whole point of life is to suffer for atonement. So more suffering = more purpose.
And while in Yiddishkeit suffering is a part of the plan, its not the purpose of life. So it's way easier to lose faith in the face of so much pain.

amother

Steelblue

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:18 am

Hudis1998 wrote:

This is just my personal take, based off a personal story. I understand not everyone is the same, and I'm not judging anyone who belongs to the first category. I just think that anyone who is a proud Jew who likes Klal Yisroel and Eretz Yisroel, and is raised with positivity will never end up in the 2nd category

You're personal take by your admission is 1 person? How do you have an opinion?

I know quite a few adults that went otd because they concluded that religion is a scam and there's not valid proof to much of it. They can't help how they feel.

Just as a quick example you mentioned in your op that otd sometimes come back and they realize that hashem loves them. Many people look around and are not able to see how hashem loves them.

amother

Peach

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:20 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Hudis1998 wrote:

Quote:

And many WERE shown the beauty.
You have a VERY narrow view. And unrealistic too.

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And we have rhe opposite, not frum family and having those family members come to shabbat meals. The exposure made us STRONGER in our yiddishkeit.

Quote:

Again, this seems to be your specific experience. Mine us completely opposite to you and yours.

Quote:

If raised with positivity and a proud Jewish identity, any kid that chas v'shalom runs into any issues will be in the 1st category and not the 2nd.

No, not always.

Thank you for defending so many of us who raised our children with love, anticipation and joy of shabbat and holidays, therapy for years due to social issues in school, Ritalin when needed, hugs and encouragement and non stop love and support.
And our kids are OTD and slowly but surely killing us with every single non halachik decision they make.
OP try hugging a kid with a necklace, without a kippah. Try telling him how much you love him. That you are always on his side.
Until then, keep your theories to yourself.

amother

↑ Begonia

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:21 am

Hudis1998 wrote:

You obviously have much to learn. If you'd ask any Jewish person, they'd also say that they wouldn't give up their faith in troubled situations. You don't need to bring an example from non-jews. A troubled life is not an excuse to give up yiddishkeit, absolutely. But the yiddishkeit part is NOT the problem for someone leaving yiddishkeit. It's the SYMPTOM of unresolved trauma/issues etc.

Please stop judging. If you are interested in the reasoning, the answer you're seeking can be found in many videos and shiurim. There's lots out there on this topic.

Being a mother of a struggling teenager, I don't appreciate all the 'reasoning'. Thank you.

amother

↑ Jasmine

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 2:34 am

Hudis1998 wrote:

A rebbi in 6th grade is NOT G-d. It's another big reason kids get confused, they need to be taught that. Gedolim of course know things better, but your average 6th grade rebbi is not reb Chaim Kanievsky...

?????????????

I have 6 sons bH. Not one of them thinks that their 6th grade Rebbe is a gadol hador never mind G-d. I can't follow your train of thought at all. Why is that confusing? Did you think that your 6th grade teacher was G-d?

But yes, if people are equating G-d with a 6th grade teacher, it's not surprising that at some point they move on.....

amother

Lightyellow

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 3:40 am

amother Oatmeal wrote:

Op, please delete your post.

Aside for the fact that you offended quite a few imas here, you shared identifying details here and in your other thread and then posted straight out lh about your cousin and aunt.

Yes. This is why it's recommended to lurk around the site first, get the feel of it, see the vibe and atmosphere here, before posting.
OP came on here with a boom and a bang!

amother

Marigold

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 4:08 am

Here is a question for OP....
I'm assuming your cousin isn't an only child, was it just him and not his siblings that were exposed to their mothers bad talking and to the non religious family?
What happened to all the siblings that stayed frum? According to you they should all be otd. It's proof that even with all that one can stay frum and it was a different reason that he went on his own path ...

Signed, a sibling and sil of many family members on their own path, each for their own reasons

LovesHashem ↓

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 4:09 am

DrMom wrote:

A new poster possibly born in 1998...

OP sounds like someone tapping imamorher as a source of primary research, trying to rile up conversation to get people to share their views so she can better flesh out her master's thesis.

I will not participate in this thread.

I don't know why age should be such a big deal in how mature someone is. If someone is 19 or 20 I hear, but 1998 means 25/26. That's pretty close to my age TBH.

But I do disagree with pretty much most of OPs posts.

chanatron1000

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 4:19 am

Hudis1998 wrote:

A rebbi in sixth grade is not G-d, but he is the closest thing to a representative of G-d in a sixth grade classroom. Instead of expecting sixth graders to not judge the religion by the people who are representing it, maybe we should take the role more seriously.

↑ LovesHashem

Sun, Aug 18 2024, 5:48 am

amother Poinsettia wrote:

Yes its not young or immature but means the op cant possibly have experience with her own children.

This is true. But also it means that I am closer to the age where I actually remember being a teen myself, and have friends or siblings friends I was close with who are OTD or went OTD, or are struggling with yiddishkeit.

It also obviously depending on your community, how exposed you are etc. I have a siblings who isn't OTD per say but it's exactly religous, and I meet their friends, know a lot of them and see them around. I have friends and classmates who aren't frum, maybe some people have more experience with this stuff than others.

It's also a spectrum. There's a wholeeee middle sea of people who aren't per say OTD but aren't frum in the way you'd imagine. People who have mental illness, people who took a different derech, many of which may not be bitter and still believe in Hashem but dont keep halacha like you do, and may not outwardly look frum either.