Tisha beav camp price gouging

amother

↑ Petunia ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 2:01 am

like any other chesed
if someone is in need
then reach out to family, friends, community
but no entitlement
ask people for what you need
reach out
find solutions
hire a sitter
send out your kids
its not a one size fits all
don't misplace your upset on those who don't deserve it
hope you get what you need op

amother

↑ Petunia

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 2:02 am

amother Foxglove wrote:

Side note. Its great to do a chessed for others and important to instill this middah in our children. (Within reason dont turn your children into shmatas) that being said its a whole other thing to demand chessed from others and expect everyone to step in and take care of your every need. This sense of entitlement on this thread (and seeped in many others) is unbelievable.

yes this

↑ Trademark ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:09 am

amother Petunia wrote:

whoever thinks it should be free or very low cost
then you do it
you and/or your kids

Multiple posters on this thread said that their children are doing it.

amother

↑ SandyBrown

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:21 am

amother Petunia wrote:

whoever thinks it should be free or very low cost
then you do it
you and/or your kids

I don't think no one thinks this!! People are misreading!

Just charge regular rates not inflated prices to take advantage! This was the entire base of the thread .
I'm not sure why and how ladies misunderstood and took it completely in incorrect way

↑ Trademark ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:23 am

amother Iris wrote:

Supply and demand
Supply and demand
Supply and demand....

It's as easy as this! No need to discuss it for 10 pages.
If cheap day camps get filled up, we need more day camp.
If not enough girls are ready to open daycamps price go up!
If expensive one don't get full, they will lower their prices! If they fill up, it's because some ppl are willing to pay an exorbitant amount of money!
Some mothers are ready to pay more to get a smaller group, some mothers are ready to pay more to get older more experienced counselors or someone they trust.
Simple business rules.

So we pure capitalists now...

That's where it starts and that's where it ends.

Why are we even having this discussion?

amother

Silver ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:26 am

amother SandyBrown wrote:

But it shouldn’t be regular prices if they are fasting! It’s Tisha beav it’s not a regular day so they are within their rights to charge more bc it should be worth it for them. Why should they end up resentful to accommodate you?

amother

↑ Mistyrose ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:29 am

amother Silver wrote:

And even if they're not fasting, it's a pain to set up a one-day camp. You have to coordinate a group of staff, market your camp, communicate with everyone who expresses interest (some of whom won't sign up), buy supplies, set up the space, break down the space, collect payment. And likely deal with worse behavior, since there is no routine established and the kids aren't used to it. When it's for even a 1 or 2 week camp, it's much more worth it than for a single day.

I would expect the staff to want to earn much more for this than for chilling at one person's house and babysitting. And more than per day for a 2 week camp.

amother

↑ Red ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:37 am

All those people who feel that the camps are too expensive but are unable to take care of your own kids for whatever reason- next year be proactive- reach out to 10/11 year olds BEFORE shiva Assar bTammuz and ask them if they can come babysit your kids in your house for $10-15/ hour for all your children. You can also provide all the supplies instead of them having to charge more so they can buy them.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:48 am

amother Red wrote:

I do get non Jewish babysitters for this type of day when I am fasting exactly because they don’t over charge and I get my money’s worth . That still is a separate point than the overall issue that so many preteens are overcharging and taking advantage.

amother

↑ Silver ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:53 am

They are not overcharging and it’s parents who think they are that take advantage of them.
Why can they not charge the same price you would want to charge?

amother

↑ Lightpink

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 5:57 am

Trademark wrote:

So we pure capitalists now...

That's where it starts and that's where it ends.

Why are we even having this discussion?

Literally everything else in our society is based on capitalism. Take a look at the prices of tznius clothing, kosher food, tuition etc...but this is price gouging and nothing else is? Please. You don't like it watch your own kids. Make your own daycamp and watch everyone else's for cheap too.

amother

↑ Mistyrose ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 6:04 am

Trademark wrote:

So we pure capitalists now...

That's where it starts and that's where it ends.

Why are we even having this discussion?

Chessed is chessed, and paid work is paid work and yes, paid work generally takes place in a capitalist context.

As a chessed, I make a meal for meal trains sometimes. But let's say I wanted to offer one time catering during Chanukah, of fancy lakes and donuts. It would be fine for me to charge what the market will bear and what will make it worth it for me to deal with the whole mess of a pop-up short term business. The meal trains are my chessed and the Chanukah catering is my capitalist profit making activity. There is nothing wrong with that. If I want to charge $12 per donut, maybe people will buy and maybe they won't, but it has nothing to do with chessed.

amother

↑ Red ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 6:12 am

I think part of the piece here is there are mothers with genuine extreme situations who feel entitled to Chessed and feel the kids who used to give it are no longer available. Maybe we do need a better system for them.

And then there are the mothers who just take for granted that they feel like there should be Chessed because they did Chessed as kids.

And then there’s everyone else who realizes that just like you wouldn’t expect an adult to do Chessed on Tisha bav without reasonable compensation, we don’t need to expect this of our teens either.

But like it or not, todays kids are living in a different world. They feel pressure to buy all sorts of things their parents can’t/ won’t buy them, so they have to earn money to buy it themselves.

↑ Trademark ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 6:16 am

amother Lightpink wrote:

We can have a whole other discussion about capitalism.

For example if there is a shortage of food do you think it's okay to charge a lot more, because of supply and demand?

mummiedearest ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 6:17 am

I used to get together with a friend for Tisha b’av and Yom Kippur. We’d get a new exciting toy, the kids would play together, and we’d take turns watching the kids while the other rested. A one day camp is not necessary, there are other ways to cope. It’s on the parents to plan ahead to deal with pre-scheduled hardships. Preteens don’t owe the adults in the community childcare on fast days. If some are willing to pay a high fee, good for the preteens! If you don’t want to, that’s ok. Find another arrangement.

It’s sad to see adults whine about how the 11 year olds are wronging them (the adults). If you don’t like it, don’t use their service. Don’t raise your kids to run these camps for money. Be aware, though, that insisting your kids do something like this as a chessed can have its own set of issues. Think it through, and raise your children as you see fit.

amother

↑ Raspberry

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 6:17 am

Trademark wrote:

We can have a whole other discussion about capitalism.

For example if there is a shortage of food do you think it's okay to charge a lot more, because of supply and demand?

Are Tisha B'Av camps really a food-level necessity?

amother

↑ Red ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 6:20 am

Trademark wrote:

That wasn't the point of my post.

But her point is that price gorging things needed for survival is wrong, she agrees, but Tisha bav camp isn’t needed for survival and there’s a limited number of spots, so let them charge what they want and those who can will pay.

amother

Broom ↓

Fri, Aug 09 2024, 6:21 am

amother Silver wrote:

They are not overcharging and it’s parents who think they are that take advantage of them.
Why can they not charge the same price you would want to charge?

I mean, I DID run a Tisha b'Av camp last year. I charged $10 an hour, and had two assistants. So an 11 yr old charging $15 an hour is definitely overcharging, sorry.