Tisha beav camp price gouging

amother

DarkPurple

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 1:28 pm

I didn't read everything, but for all you people who suffer during tisha b'av, have you asked shailos about fasting. I know it's different outside of Israel where rabbonim are much more makil on Tisha bav especially from the heat.
I spoke with my Rov and was told to go as long as I can. With the kids, the heat and it being a long fast and it could take a couple days to recover.
I was not told send them out would be better than breaking my fast.

Just my two cents- but I assume most people have asked.

amother

Bergamot ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 1:34 pm

You don’t have to send. There are so many Tisha Bav camps this year. Some are cheap. Some are expensive. Just because it’s teens running the camp doesn’t mean they’re doing it as a chessed. They are doing it to make money.

amother

Burntblack

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 1:57 pm

Personally, I don’t send to tisha beav camps. But I just want to say that

A) Girls can do this as a business. It doesn’t have to be a free Chesed.
( If someone will literally need to break their fast otherwise and they can’t afford it, they can do all of watergirls suggestions or ask a neighbor or her daughter to help her out for an hour or so for Chesed. Or ask a rav.)

B) Although girls can do this as a business, there is something called mentschlichkeit. Not price gauging. Not taking advantage of people’s desperation.

C) Here’s a way to be part of the change- there’s someone

who posted a really nice comment IRL on a neighborhood chat.
She wrote that she notices and appreciates those girls who do camps on Tisha beav as a chessed and not just a money maker, and that it says a lot about girls and their parents if they make a camp and charge a reasonable rate.
(This was a response to a tisha beav camp made by a 13 yo girl who is charging $25 for 5 hours.)

You can support those who are not price gouging either by sending to them or by telling them (and their moms!) that you recognize it and appreciate it.

amother

Cerise ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 1:59 pm

amother Iris wrote:

My girls are making a camp.
One is charging $35 for 3 and half hours.(she's only taking 10 kids and will have to pay an assistant. )
The other one is doing $40 but siblings discount is $30 for 4h offering snacks and supper. She's doing it with a friend, they're both 15 yrs old.
They're both fasting and super responsible and capable. They have experience working in camps.
The only reason they are working on a fast day is to make money!! It's a very hard job.
I don't think it's a crazy price, they deserve it!
I've never sent to Tisha bav day camp when my kids were little because I couldn't afford it. Supply and demand!
(If someone called and say I'm expecting / in sick and I want to fast but I can't afford full price, they probably would give a discount!)

This price is very reasonable. The complaint is primarily about the camps charging close to double that.

amother

↑ Cerise

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 2:03 pm

This thread has inspired me to encourage my daughter to make a Tisha bav camp with her neighborhood friends. BH I can afford to pay for basic supplies from the dollar store. It really is a chesed for moms and I’ll allow her to charge a nominal fee and enjoy whatever she makes.

amother

Sunflower

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 2:59 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

I think the problem is that we are monetizing everything.

When did chessed stop becoming a thing? Why does everything have a price tag? And why are we encouraging our young young preteens to charge?

As I wrote upthread, when I was a kid I did this for free. I took the little kids in the neighborhood, took them to the park for an hour, read them some stories, maybe we colored a little, everyone ate snacks or sandwiches they brought from home.

It wasn't a whole "program", there weren't fancy supplies and projects or overhead. It was simply giving the fasting adults a break.

And it was common in my neighborhood that every year the 10/11 year Olds would do this.

How did we get from there, to fancy programs run by teens/adults with high hourly rates? Why should anyone lose money over something that shouldn't be costing money?

The frum world is more capitalistic and materialistic than many other communities and it's heart breaking

amother

Azalea ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 3:01 pm

amother Cerise wrote:

Go you!

amother

↑ Winterberry

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 3:37 pm

flowerpower wrote:

Are all the expensive camps based in Lakewood? I didn’t see any where I live.

No. Out of town. We have some camps for $20 and I've seen ads for $70-80

amother

↑ Lightpink ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 3:56 pm

amother Winterberry wrote:

No. Out of town. We have some camps for $20 and I've seen ads for $70-80

If there are some cheaper and some expensive then why are people complaining? Send to the cheaper ones if you don't want to pay the more expensive price.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 4:03 pm

amother Lightpink wrote:

If there are some cheaper and some expensive then why are people complaining? Send to the cheaper ones if you don't want to pay the more expensive price.

To bring awareness.. to make people think twice before they let their daughter charge whatever she wants

amother

↑ Cerulean ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 4:05 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

To bring awareness.. to make people think twice before they let their daughter charge whatever she wants

Agree. But are the kids setting the prices here or the parents? I don't the average 11 year old has such high expectations.

amother

↑ Lightpink ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 4:51 pm

flowerpower wrote:

Someone just sent me a flyer. $120 for 6 hrs

I think there is more to the pricing. Is this more sophisticated with a better program, nicer crafts, good food etc...? I doubt an 11 year old making popsicle stick crafts and pony bead bracelets is charging that price.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 4:53 pm

amother Cerulean wrote:

Agree. But are the kids setting the prices here or the parents? I don't the average 11 year old has such high expectations.

I know before my daughter does any type of small jobs, we discuss a fair price . I can’t imagine the kids are making the prices without parental agreement or encouragement.

amother

Poppy ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 5:01 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

No one is demanding chesed, we are asking parents to consider not having their child charge 3-5x as much as they normally charge on a day where most mothers are physically exhausted, not feeling welcome, and can really use a break.

See this mentality I don’t understand. We can’t watch our own kids?? Yes Tisha B’av is a hard day. I dont fast well, but somehow we figure it out. Why do we as a generation feel the need to ship away our kids and shirk our responsibilities? If anything the onus is on us not on the kids making camps

amother

Darkblue ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 5:06 pm

1. I would guess the expensive options are going to be more sophisticated than dollar store crafts and such.

2. Let's say an adult woman decided to hold a Tisha b'av camp at similar prices. Would anyone begrudge her prices or expect her to keep them low enough for everyone to afford?

↑ Trademark ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 5:06 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

And I don't understand the imamother mentality of being extremely independent, after all you chose to bring these children into the world.

It takes a village to raise a child.

amother

↑ Poppy ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 5:07 pm

Trademark wrote:

And I don't understand the imamother mentality of being extremely independent, after all you chose to bring these children into the world.

It takes a village to raise a child.

Yes a thousand percent. But the responsibility of the village is not on 11 year olds. It’s a very different scenario when we are say doing a round robin or switching childcare or asking DH to help or getting a babysitter in the house.

My difficulty in caring for my kids shouldn’t fall on the shoulders of our teens and pre teens