Tisha beav camp price gouging

↑ Trademark ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:09 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

Yes a thousand percent. But the responsibility of the village is not on 11 year olds

Right, it's not their responsibility.

Like I stated previously, it's not a contradiction.

A. 11-year-olds don't owe young mothers anything

B. Mothers of preteens should teach their daughters to do chesed and certainly not give them ideas about charging what is considered a lot for their age.

amother

↑ Darkblue ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:12 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

Yes a thousand percent. But the responsibility of the village is not on 11 year olds. It’s a very different scenario when we are say doing a round robin or switching childcare or asking DH to help or getting a babysitter in the house.

My difficulty in caring for my kids shouldn’t fall on the shoulders of our teens and pre teens

Agree. Especially pre-teens who are basically kids themselves. Tisha bav isn't an easy day for them either, even if they aren't fasting. It's not their responsibility to help out other parents fast aside from their own.
(All that said, I must chime in with the posters who expressed concern about sending kids to a camp that is staffed only by 11 year olds without an older teen or adult supervising.)

amother

Wheat

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:13 pm

amother Lightpink wrote:

I think there is more to the pricing. Is this more sophisticated with a better program, nicer crafts, good food etc...? I doubt an 11 year old making popsicle stick crafts and pony bead bracelets is charging that price.

I don't care how sophisticated, $120 is an insane price.

amother

Peach

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:15 pm

I didn't read every single page so apologies if this has been said already...

But everyone who's saying "since when do we charge for Chessed" and "what about post partum mothers"?

Right. For those few who truly don't fast well and truly don't have help (family, husbands who often fast better, older kids), there should be Chessed.

For everyone else, yes, it's not great fun have a bunch of restless, bored, kvetchy children home all day in the heat as you try to keep them entertained for hour after hour while you fast. It's hard, not easy. But that's fine. No one owes you Chessed. It's your job to take care of those kids.

I think if the girls who did this didn't charge or charged less EVERYONE would be sending and many many many of them would be rude, entitled, and demanding.

It's a luxury. And just because they're 11 doesn't mean they're not people. It's really not easy to take care of a bunch of randomly aged kids that you don't know for a few hours, without a playgroup set up and supplies. Supplies cost money. Snacks cost money.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:18 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

See this mentality I don’t understand. We can’t watch our own kids?? Yes Tisha B’av is a hard day. I dont fast well, but somehow we figure it out. Why do we as a generation feel the need to ship away our kids and shirk our responsibilities? If anything the onus is on us not on the kids making camps

Consider yourself lucky that you don’t have any health challenges and can’t relate to not being able to fast and watch your kids simultaneously. Yes there are times I physically can’t take care of my toddler. My husband does a lot but especially on a day like 9 av he would like to be able to make it to a minyan and/ or kinos.
No one is saying the responsibility for watching all of tbe community kids is on the pre teens, just that if they are anyway making programs, it would be nice if it is done in affordable ways

ysydmom

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:21 pm

In a real world moms should watch their own kids, that's what my mom did however, there are moms that just can't do it, so they need help, mom's don't always live near family so they can't ask family to help out so they have to pay for help hence the babysitters.

Growing up if my mom needed a break we went to Bubby/grandma, cousins, aunts, friends etc. this generation doesn't always have that luxury hence the need to send kids to someone else and pay for that service.

I don't think it's right to charge for these programs, however nowadays everything costs. I used to run one upstate for free with my friends, we all kept busy that way.

Maybe some mothers on here can ask their teens to help out in a local shul for free? Maybe we should ask the Rabbis to help bring attention to this issue and get group leaders to come for a few hours to entertain the kids?

For those that are overwhelmed can you switch off with a friend, or watch your kids together with a friend so you have company?

I am sure there is some solution.

A little more achdus is in order these days. Maybe those of you who have kids running the program can offer "scholarships" to those that can't afford?

amother

↑ Poppy ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:23 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

I clearly said fasting is hard for me. I do have health challenges. I still don’t think it should fall on 11 year olds. I stay on the couch all day, kids watch mostly or sometimes I share with neighbors and have their kids watch here too. It’s still not 11 year olds responsibility. If I need extra help I hire a girl.

amother

↑ Poppy ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:25 pm

ysydmom wrote:

I don’t have any family whatsoever.
You do what you gotta do, figure it out somehow. Idk why the responsibility has to fall on teens (and yes I am a teen/preteen mom too).

amother

↑ Lightpink ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:26 pm

amother Wheat wrote:

I don't care how sophisticated, $120 is an insane price.

If it's being run by older teens/ladies I think they can charge more if they do a more sophisticated program. Those who don't want to send aren't forced to. Same like there are cheaper and more expensive camp options.

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:30 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

Sorry dont agree if you are out of commission it is 💯 your husband’s responsibility to be home with the kids not your neighbors 11-year old child. And yes I also cant function when I fast but I would never expect an 11 year old to help me out for free

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:31 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

I didn’t say that the 11 year olds need to take over parenting , again I wouldn’t send my son to someone so young anyway. All I am advocating for is that instead of looking at Tisha Beav as a big money maker, people should consider charging reasonable rates.
On another note, it’s not so simple to even work on 9 av, unless it’s something needed for the day or a big loss, There are many sources for saying one won’t see bracha from income made on this day and if one can they should take off.

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:32 pm

Why is everyone expecting so much from 11-year-old kids? You all can volunteer to help out your neighbors just because you’re an adult doesn’t mean you can’t do chesed. Start a movement knock on your neighbors door and offer to watch their kid for an hour.

amother

↑ Poppy ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:33 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

No, it’s not on the 11 year olds to charge reasonable rates. Your health needs are not their issue. If you need help work something out with DH or if that’s not an option another Mom or hire a teen or if you’re really stuck call the school and see if they have chesed girls still needing hours over the summer OR gasp, let your kids watch.
We can’t put adult problems on kids

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:33 pm

amother Foxglove wrote:

There is a world of a difference between free and charging $100 an hour..
I didn’t say anywhere that I expect people to work for free, just that I consider it greedy and taking advantage and bad middos to charge an exorbitant amount on a day like 9 av.
Anyway, I am getting tired of going in circles, especially with mostly anonymous mothers . If anyone wants to continue debating, happy to do it with people who post under their screen name.

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:35 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

And I consider it bad middos to be so entitled and demand other people do chesed for you, especially in your case where u have an able bodied spouse, instead of taking advantage of an 11 year old

amother

↑ Lightpink ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:35 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

There are ladies who need money and run camps on yom Kippur and charge a hefty fee. Honestly I think it's fair. They are fasting and doing you a huge service there is no reason they shouldn't be compensated well. This is similar. It is hard watching a group of bored hot kids on a long boring day that is coming after a long boring day as most camps end early on erev Tisha baav. They have all the right to charge to make it worth it for them. It is not the person who is running the camps responsibility to make sure everyone can afford her program. Same way that there are expensive camps. Expensive clothing stores. Expensive food stores. You don't like this camp figure out another option. Find an 11 year old who will do it cheaper for you.

momof5!

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:46 pm

I didn't read through all the pages but this is exactly why I told my 11-year-old daughter that she can charge max $10 per kid for 4 hours of camp. I told her she is allowed to make money but not take advantage of mothers that have a hard time fasting..

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:48 pm

momof5! wrote:

Good for you!! That’s exactly the point I am trying to make, girls can make a very decent amount of $ without being greedy snd taking advantage.

↑ flowerpower ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:52 pm

amother Lightpink wrote:

Tisha bav doesn’t need a sophisticated program. It’s a sad day after all. . They just need a loose entertainment to keep the kids busy while giving moms a little breather