Off grid | Imamother

papaya613

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 2:57 am

https://www.mikvah.org/directory

try looking at different cities that have mikvaos to see how big they are. there are definitely some very very small (maybe even smaller than you want) cities

eta from the looks of it a lot are chabad but there are a few random ones in the midwest, you can tell by the shul name generally

amother

Khaki

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 7:39 am

Rappel wrote:

Agreed. I found though, that after I moved to the middle of nowhere, I actually liked people - just not city life. A town of about 12-50 families or so in a beautiful location can be quite pleasant.

op when do you want to retire? after our kids our out of the house (youngest is almost 6) we plan on moving away from our frum community. my husband would love to live in the middle of nowhere but I would like to at least have some people so he's thinking about seeing if he could get together a small community of around 50 couples (there would be no school but if people want to homeschool that would be up to them) and have a community for people who just want their space but are ok with there being some people around. like he would make a mikvah, a shul but doesn't want a shul rabbi.... he flies so he would be able to get some kosher food... is that something that would interest you? and yeah it would be someplace pretty like west virginia or something...where he'd buy a big empty piece of land and people could build houses on it...

amother

Gladiolus

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 8:03 am

amother Floralwhite wrote:

Sorry if this comes across as harsh- but if you like to be alone, what are you doing on this site?

I often see posters in here saying how they just need to be alone, introverted, don't like socializing...but I worry that they only feel this way because they spend so much time interacting with a screen they have no energy left to socialize with the real world.

Like would you really be able to be really really alone? No internet, no phone, no music, no screens or technology whatsoever, no people, no nothing for months (years?) at a time. It does actually sound lovely to me too for a week, maybe even a month. But do you really think you'd want to live like that forever?

This is such a ridiculous comment lol. I'm a total introvert and I read imamother for entertainment. No, o have no other social media and no, it dies not take away my "energy" from socializing in the real world. That's so silly. Have you never met an introvert???

Anyhow, OP you are "allowed" to move wherever you want. And I'm guessing from the question you may be a BT. Yes, move wherever. Some of the greatest rebbes lived for years in hisbodidus far from society. If that's what you need for your health and well being then by extension it will help your spirituality. Go for it.

monseymom25

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 8:07 am

OP I’m just coming here to say that I understand where you’re coming from. I don’t know why posters are being so harsh. You don’t have to be running away from anything. Maybe you are running toward the openness and healthy life you feel most comfortable in. There’s nothing wrong with that. Plenty of people in the world live on large properties or farms with lots of privacy.
I hope you can find what you’re looking for!

Last edited by monseymom25 on Wed, Aug 07 2024, 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 8:08 am

IYH retirement is about 5-10 yrs away. Cant say that living in Nowhere USA with other people is appealing.

Also, being off grid is not for the faint. Probably would need to rethink some or all of that, I know.

BusyBoys

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 8:19 am

You can watch Peter Santanello on YouTube.
He goes around and interviews many many different demographics in the US.
It’s obviously not Jewish but you can get a vibe of what living in the area feels like..
He has gone to ppl completely off grid, to Amish, to Jewish, to crime hood areas etc..

amother

Nemesia ↓

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 8:26 am

I am the same way. We are working in a camp in the middle of nowhere right now (not catskills) and I would love to live in a little commune in the middle of no where. With farmland, animals, etc. But while I used to think I wouldnt want a community at all, I have gotten to the point in my life that I would want a small community of like minded people.

amother

↑ Floralwhite

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 8:38 am

amother Gladiolus wrote:

No, Guess I've never met an introvert?

So you read imamother just for entertainment? How is that different from interacting with real people for entertainment? Would you still be able "entertain" yourself if you didn't have any phone on computer OR any human interaction whatsoever?

amother

↑ Nemesia

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 8:46 am

amother Floralwhite wrote:

Lol you obviously really have never talked to an introvert.
It is very very different than talking to other people for interaction.

amother

Tealblue

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 12:30 pm

As an introvert I prefer living in a larger city over a small one. Dh grew up in a small OOT community and I personally hate that when I walk into the 1 kosher store, they will all know who you are and your life. I like my large store where I have anonymity. It's easier to be alone in a crowd than it is a small group.
I think in response to the poster saying about online socializing, is that as an introvert, I can socialize and I'm fine with some level of constant socializing. But it drains me and I need some alone time to then recharge. My sil is the opposite to me as an extrovert. She has friends over most days and knows most people. And she thrives off loads of people and busyness, and that's what recharges her.
I do think that if it wasn't for minyan, kosher food and all the other jewish life stuff, dh would have loved to live in some quiet hick town near mountains and a slower pace of life.

lora

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 12:36 pm

you can find plenty of beautiful isolated properties in upstate new york where you have your acres of private property but are just a short drive or even walk away from a minyan and community. best of both worlds.

amother

↑ Mintcream ↓

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 12:46 pm

amother OP wrote:

The biggest issue is not 5-10 years from now when you are in you 60's, its 20 years from now, when you live far from medical resources and have a big piece of property that has systems and animals that need a lot of physical upkeep.
Most non- jewish people who live like this have family who take care of them as they age in the sticks ,which considering your kids will probably not have grown up in the lifestyle you probably won't have, or they end up in nursing homes.....

What kind of place are you in now?
What speaks to you about off grid?
What kind of financial resources do you have?

A slower pace of life?
Growing a raising your own food?
Quiet and peace and isolation from people

If you figure out what is calling to you, you may be able to figure out a way to still have that without moving to the middle of nowhere.

amother

Black ↓

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 12:46 pm

amother OP wrote:

It sounds like the Catskills area year round might be a good fit for you.

Off Grid is REALLY not for the faint of heart. DH and I researched this a while back and we were in our 20s then. Super fit, strong, and outdoorsy. We bought a piece of land and attempted to make an off grid shed/house thing. Sold it a couple years later as it just wasn't realistic.

My biggest suggestion would be to try it for a bit. Allow yourself to run away to the woods or wherever as you call it. Give yourself the permission. Once you have permission, you'll be able to more clearly see what does or doesn't work and you can bring those elements back into City life. Many times the inability to have it results in it being built up more in a fantastical sense in our minds.

Try it for a month or two!

I found that being close enough to the City where I can get the amenities I need (food, water, hospitals, resources etc) without too much of a stretch but also close enough to nature where I can immerse myself there is great.

I would NOT suggest Howell/Jackson unless you have family in those regions. There aren't mountains there. Upstate NY has plenty of mountains. Monsey area even has mountains accessible!

In terms of the total isolation, I found that to be depressing after a while. Instead, I found that I need the OPTION for social without the pressure of it. I like going on little adventures in the woods or exploring little towns and seeing people in libraries, groceries, parks, hikes etc.

No commitment to socialize but the OPTION is there. Many introverts WANT to be invited to the party even if they will decline. It's nice to feel included and part of. I think that people misconstrue the "we are a social creatures". We are a social creatures but we don't need to be enmeshed in it.

Making sure that I have the OPTIONS for it has been HUGE in helping me find the balance in my life. The total isolation cuts off those options and the depression, stress, isolation etc can kick in and not make it as fulfilling (you really have to do EVERYTHING yourself as there is no one to call or reach out to if you need help for anything!).

Ex: out there you will need a car. What happens if you get stuck in the rainy dirt mud? Get a flat? Well. Fix it yourself or tow yourself out. Or walk home. Or wait HOURS for help. But what if there is no service to call for help? Just because you built your off grid home to have service, that will only extend so far.

I got a flat in the middle of nowhere without service. I had a flat repair kit and everything I needed but, I wasn't strong enough to get the tire off. I needed people to help. Grateful some people where in the area and they helped me but if it was later at night, I would've been stranded on a random mountaintop myself with no help....we do need people in a sense.

Especially in retirement age!

Another ex: I needed an ambulance at one point. They came within 10 minutes but the closest hospital was 45min...by ambulance!! Can you afford that kind of timeframe? An hr for help? It really made me rethink it. It was also close to $4K!!!! No hatzalah out there and ambulances are a fortune and not usually covered by insurance...

Questions to ask yourself: what makes you feel pulled to that life? What components in it do you think will make you happy? What components of the current life do you not like? Think about these and see if there are ways to include/remove those components in a more accessible life.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 1:33 pm

Very good points made. I have thought about the access issue to healthcare and other services.

I also rather would have the option to socialize.

I can picture having lots of animals. Plenty of company for me generally.

B’ezrat Hashem, it will be what it will be.

amother

Springgreen

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 2:06 pm

OP, I can totally relate to your desire to be alone. I feel the same way.

The best idea for you seems to be what several posters here suggested - the outskirts of some smaller place with a Jewish presence. That way you can choose to be alone, enjoy the landscape and the quiet and keep animals, while not being cut off totally from options for Shabbat and YT.

amother

↑ Mintcream ↓

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 2:25 pm

amother OP wrote:

How scenic are you looking?
What kind of budget do you have if you sell your home?
How far would you be willing to walk to shul?

To me sounds like you need a big (5+ acre's), somewhat isolated ( of the main road, with the home not directly on the road, suburban property on the outskirts of a frum jewish community.

Somewhere you can have animals, grow your own food, have peace and quiet, where there are lots of nature activities in the area, but still close to healthcare, services, stores - not really rural.

I have an idea for you - but what is your budget?

amother

Ivory

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 5:16 pm

The is a big difference to living OFF GRID, and living in a secluded rural community. I think you are interested in the latter. Outside of a small town/village, plenty of space for you & your husband (and animals if you like), no need to interact with anyone if you dont want to, but the option to go into the town / village not too far away. Like other people have mentioned, you can find places Upstate NY, or outside of Monsey (eg Haverstraw) that are rural and have smaller jewish communities, but not so way out there. But they still in NY.

Or you can move to Montana! Bozeman, Montana is one of the fastest growing Jewish communities in the Pacific Northwest - but its still a rural community. I hear so much about it there and would really like to visit. Perhaps I'd move there too!

amother

Hyacinth ↓

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 6:18 pm

I completely relate to your post. I crave nature and beautiful places. And I love the idea of going to the corner shop in muddy rainboots, without having to get dressed up to fit into the community.

amother

↑ Hyacinth ↓

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 6:19 pm

mandr wrote:

I can't imagine your kids thriving in such an environment. I can't see them having normal functional marriages and then having children and visiting you either! The fact that you called your kids "guests" seems a little weird to me as well.

Huh?

amother

↑ Hyacinth ↓

Wed, Aug 07 2024, 6:20 pm

mandr wrote:

No they are not. They will always be children.

What?