DD feels suffocated by constraints of frum life

amother

Smokey

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 8:37 am

Why can’t she be frum with pets and a farm? There are many a few in the lakewood and surrounding areas. She can very much be frum in out of town setting as well

This very all or nothing mindset is going to be the downfall. You can sign her up now to take care of animals in the farms if you live in the area. Or find local farms to take her to. Buy her a hamster or bunny. Encourage her love for animals and you can learn halichos about how to care for them - she might enjoy it

Chayalle

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 8:43 am

There's no contradiction between being frum and loving animals OP.....my DD rode horses, used to give horseback riding lessons on one of Lakewood's surrounding farms, had lots of pets over the years, would take care of a relative's cats, was a counselor in a farm daycamp, a wrangler at Oorah summer camp, etc...she did all these as a teen/young adult. Now BH married to a frum working/learning boy. Let her pursue her interests.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 9:36 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Great! This is much easier.
Who are her friends? Do they have middos? Are they growth-oriented? Is she in school or getting training for anything? What does she do in her free time? Are there meaningful volunteering opportunities she can spend on time on to feel like a valued member of the community she's in right now?
There are frum vets, frum people who are back to nature... there are people out who would be great mentors or help her feel like she's building community.

.

She has friends from high school and seminary but everyone is doing their own thing.

She is trying to figure out what to do for school right now. Definitely frum college programs dont fit with her path.

She is self employed while waiting for school to start. (Ie pet sitting, dog walking, yard work type stuff).

Also, Israel is pretty important to her. I think she definitely wants to keep the aliyah option open which means figuring out a way to support herself and also a family. Better to make aliyah while young and no kids rather than later.

amother

Caramel ↓

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 9:41 am

OP, I've got a 21 y.o. daughter with similar interests. We have always encouraged them. Hashem makes everyone the way they are because that is how we are needed to show up in the world. Hashem wants us to serve Him through our kochos, not in spite of them. She has worked for a girls only petting zoo, volunteered at horse farms and has a mini homestead in our backyard. With all of these projects, she has learned much about halacha as it pertains to animals, kashrus and unique aspects of the 39 melachos that apply when you care for animals. She has also developed confidence, business skills, an incredible work ethic, dispute resolution skills, a strong sense of self identity.
She is finishing up college right now (though she chose NOT to be a vet).
Feel free to PM if it would be helpful to you.

Last edited by amother on Tue, Jul 30 2024, 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Caramel ↓

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 9:48 am

amother Babyblue wrote:

I think I may have a shidduch for her (no joke) but he definitely won't want to make Aliya. He is 24, loves animals, would love to live on a farm. He raises chickens in his families backyard, and is trained in Shechita. He is frum, solid, from a nice frum (baal teshuva) family, and has a great sense of humor.

I would love to hear more about your daughter (PM me)

Babyblue, I'd PM you as well about shidduch information, but you're anon.

Last edited by amother on Tue, Jul 30 2024, 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Caramel

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 10:05 am

I find that aliya is great, but the culture shock is also great when trying to fit into non-olim areas. If your daughter is serious about aliya, she should probably do college THERE so she can learn the language and integrate in the culture.

Be aware that Israel a. is mostly cities and apartment living, at least during schooling, b. has agricultural schools that are probably not dati and c. a much more traditional society when it comes to gender roles and expectations that don't translate well even for the career frum women in the US.

I'm not sure if you're in the NY area, but there are frum communities near Rutgers in NJ (has an agricultural school with animal husbandry) and Cornell in NY has a Jewish presence on campus. The current matzav on both those campuses for Jews is not easy but agriculture may be a separate experience.

If her interest is in being independent in her pursuit of homesteading and Israel appeals to her, she should probably do a few months of volunteer work in farms there to see if the culture is something that matches.

amother

Clear ↓

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 11:36 am

May I say something that sounds a little harsh but I think will be helpful?

Nothing you've said is her feeling suffocated by frum life. That's your interpretation of her feelings. She seems to be looking around for a way to feel fulfilled and satisfied within frum life. That's really doable as everyone else here is saying.

What you need to do is get around your feelings that frum life is suffocating your daughter.

amother

↑ Melon

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 11:41 am

amother Clear wrote:

Or she's actually feeling suffocated by frum life and this is how it's being expressed.

I'd definitely recommend holding off on marriage until she finds herself, even if that means not being frum anymore.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 12:37 pm

amother OP wrote:

What kind of school/training is she going for? BTW, many people who sent their older kids to actual secular campuses for college are doing the frum online version for their younger kids. Different world.

amother

↑ NeonGreen ↓

Tue, Jul 30 2024, 3:29 am

I would recommend her going to israel and visiting communities that would work for her and find out what people there do for a living. I would also consider her making aliya now - it may sound crazy but tuition is much cheaper ( plus aliya means a free undergrad) here as are salaries, and it will be very hard to afford american student loans on an israeli salary. If you have the money to put her thru college then that money can go towards buying property, and if not she doesnt need the crushing loans.
I also think she will have an easier time here in shidduchim then she would in the states, because many american guys who want to make aliya and have the agricultural lifestyle stay in israel post yeshiva.
There are apartments that frum girls live in together, or she could try to get a madricha job so she doesnt have living expenses....

Some ideas of directions she can go:
Viticulture and Oenology - there are a lot of boutique wineries in yishuvim. There is a masters program in Hebrew U - I would look into what you need in an undergrad level to get into that.
https://hutz.agri.huji.ac.il/msc-viticulture

Horse Therapy/animal therapy - for kids with adhd ect, - its covered by the kuppa so a lot of people do that
Agricultural management
Vet school in israel would be much cheaper but is very hard to get into - she would need a very high SAT score to get in.
Here is a whole list of agricultural masters that the Hebrew U has in english - I am pretty sure if she gets her undergrad in the states the masters program is free with aliya
https://international.huji.ac......13366

The other direction would be a remote work from home job that she can do on a yishuv. I actually think this is the direction I would go - but she may not be able to stomach it. But if she is more thinking in homesteading lines then a career, this would mean she could be home manage the homestead and raise her kids, plus bring in an income.

Take the money that would go to schooling and invest it so that she can buy property, and take a course and get a job right away in something like medical billing, marketing, video editing, web design/graphics and start stacking cash. The biggest issue with yishuv life is the expense in buying property. In general homesteading is something that needs cash - I would focus on building those reserves.

papaya613

Tue, Jul 30 2024, 3:53 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

Here is a whole list of agricultural masters that the Hebrew U has in english - I am pretty sure if she gets her undergrad in the states the masters program is free with aliya
https://international.huji.ac......13366

If you have an undergrad degree from the states Hebrew University will do any masters program in english for you. Vet school would not be the same and would only be in hebrew. additionally its very possible that she would have to do a mechina for 1-2 semesters so that the universities recognize her high school diploma (this is definitely the case for Hebrew U, I do not know about all universities and colleges).
The agriculture programs at Hebrew U are in rechovot which is far from where most frum singles live in israel (Jerusalem)

amother

↑ NeonGreen ↓

Tue, Jul 30 2024, 5:12 am

papaya613 wrote:

Yes, but she would need undergrad before doing the masters program and there is a small anglo community in rechovot.

It isnt insane to live in rechovot for two years of school - and she may be married by that time....