DEI and racism. | Imamother

amother

OP ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:18 am

I'd appreciate if this thread not delve into politics whatsoever.

I work for a big well known company and my supervisor does hiring. We needed a few people earlier in the year and she told me frankly that the company will be looking to hire diverse candidates because these days that's what the powers that be feel is appropriate.

Things got a little sticky this week when during lunch with a few people on my team someone in our group mentioned about one of the hires from a few months ago that he is a "DEI hire". Someone in our group (who is aware that our supervisor said she'd be hiring DEI) got offended and said the comment was racist.

Which is it? My logic tells me that if a person believes in the value of DEI (and I'm not even debating whether it's good or not, I don't know) then it also seems fair to question every "diverse" person that's hired.

It was getting a little heated and I honestly felt the person making the racism claim was being a total fool. Any thoughts on this?

amother

Peach ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:25 am

This thread is going to devolve into the usual imamother posts.

That said stating that someone is a DEI hire is racist because the implication is that the person is unqualified and hired solely because of that and would not have been hired otherwise.

The reality is that having employment focus on diversity that actually reflects the population can have important benefits to a business as well as being appropriate.

I am in a field in which white Xtian men traditionally predominated - they are part of the old boy's club and yet no one is bothered about the reality of their being hired because they were part of an old boy network - went to the same schools - in the same frats.

The bosses who hired them were more comfortable (even subliminally) with people who looked like them and so women, POC etc. had more difficulty - even with the same qualifications and experience - getting hired and promoted.

I know this as a woman because it is my reality in a business - had to be twice as good and work twice as hard as the idiot in the next office because I had a vag*ina

amother

Pumpkin ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:27 am

The actual act of DEI is racist because you're literally hiring on the basis of race. It's also really not nice to assume someone is a DEI hire just because they're in a DEI category. It feels like you're calling them less qualified (which you can't know until you actually work with them if they are or aren't). And that's yet another terrible consequence of DEI- they are hurting the very people they're claiming to help because now everyone suspects that anyone who belongs to a DEI group got there on the basis of DEI and not merit, even when that's not true.

amother

Lightyellow ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:29 am

Calling someone a DEI hire is racist even if true.

Not every racist comment is created equal though. In a case where its true and it was unfair and racist to white male candidates its not necessarily a bad thing to point out.

Rubber Ducky

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:33 am

If you are not hiring on merit, then it's racist. Period.

This calls into question the ability of any woman/minority/homo-trans-other hire. This is most important in positions like doctors, pilots, and engineers, where incompetence can mean people die.

amother

↑ Peach ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:39 am

Rubber Ducky wrote:

Your statement is fallacious because you are assuming that the person hired is not qualified.

The reality is that there are many "qualified" people and so how does one select among equally qualified candidates.

Historically - as I wrote - no one had an issue with white Xtian men being hired.

And your statement is racist because you are coming from a place where your assumption is that using diversity as a goal is going to result in unqualified people being hired - that there isn't a pool of very qualified individuals which corporations traditionally haven't hired because of bias among the people hiring them

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:40 am

amother Lightyellow wrote:

I'm going to disagree with you on the bolded. I think we should be allowed to speak the truth. Discussing statistics that reflect badly on certain segments of the population isn't racist to me. It's reality. saying someone is a DEI hire might be hurtful but why is it racist?

Once a company says they are hiring based on DEI, Unfortunately I think every diverse hire is suspect regardless of how qualified. There's simply no way to tell if the person was hired on merit or DEI.

amother

↑ Lightyellow

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:45 am

amother OP wrote:

Truth and racism are not mutually exclusive.

If someone is a thug and you say it, it can be true but its a racist thing to call someone.

amother

Ecru ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:47 am

amother OP wrote:

Once a company says they are hiring based on DEI, Unfortunately I think every diverse hire is suspect regardless of how qualified. There's simply no way to tell if the person was hired on merit or DEI.

This is a pretty good example of unconscious bias and why actual DEI practices are used—which aren’t giving extra “points” to minorities etc.

If someone would ever assume competence or lack thereof based on gender or skin color, then it seems like there’s some clear bias at play—even if unconscious.

amother

Melon ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:54 am

amother Lightyellow wrote:

Truth and racism are not mutually exclusive.

If someone is a thug and you say it, it can be true but its a racist thing to call someone.

It's not racist to call someone a thug. It's insulting, but has nothing to do with race. Unless you are suggesting that all "thugs" belong to a specific ethnicity or race.

↑ Genius

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:56 am

amother Peach wrote:

Historically people had issues with unqualified white xtian male hires. People these days don't have problems with qualified minorities being hired. They have issues with minorities being hired because of their minority status.
The fact that people's skin color is considered before their qualifications leads others to doubt their competence. And the fact that these people are picked from a smaller group increases the chances that they will indeed be less qualified than others vying for the same position. DEI is likely increasing the very racism it is trying to get rid of.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 8:09 am

amother Lightyellow wrote:

Truth and racism are not mutually exclusive.

If someone is a thug and you say it, it can be true but its a racist thing to call someone.

Racist to me means treating someone different on the basis of their race. I don't see how that overlaps with calling a thug, a thug.

Would you say it's racist to call a white person a thug? If you say it's only ok to call white people thugs but not minorities, then I'd say they you are in fact a racist. You are treating people differently for no reason other than their race.

Queen Of Hearts ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 8:29 am

If someone acts like a thug why is it racist to call them a thug?

Regarding DEI, if the company is outright stating they are hiring based on DEI then calling it a DEI hire is just stating back the company's own statement.
You can't have it both ways.

There's either no judging a person by the color of their skin or ethnicity or there is.

It's the same like saying a man can be a woman and then championing for woman's rights.
You can't have it both ways.

ally ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 8:38 am

Rubber Ducky wrote:

As somone who works in one of those fields, in a male dominated environment - my observation has been that the diverse hires are often the best - because to enter that field, they must have had a specific passion and skill that drove them out of the box. As opposed to the men who are like, what should I do? Eh, I'll do what everyone else does.

I've often said that true equality will be when the diverse population is actually mediocre.

amother

↑ Pumpkin ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 8:40 am

amother Ecru wrote:

But that bias is happening BECAUSE of DEI. What do you expect people to think about minority coworkers when you have openly stated you have a policy of taking it into account in hiring decisions? Of course we shouldn't assume competency or lack thereof based on gender and skin color. And most people wouldn't if not for DEI. This exactly the harm that is caused by the policy (among a bunch of other things). You can't take protected identity into account and then expect people not to have questions on the competency of your hires based on the exact "qualifications" you used to hire them!

amother

↑ Ecru ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 8:42 am

amother Pumpkin wrote:

I don’t agree that DEI is the precursor of the bias.

↑ ally ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 8:44 am

amother Pumpkin wrote:

Lol. The whole need for DEI was because that was (is) the reality. People are discriminated against because of race, colour etc. Now those same people get to blame their bigotry on DEI.

amother

↑ Ecru

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 8:47 am

ally wrote:

Lol. The whole need for DEI was because that was (is) the reality. People are discriminated against because of race, colour etc. Now those same people get to blame their bigotry on DEI.

Exactly

sushilover ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 8:53 am

The powers that be in your company and the supervisor are racist for choosing someone based on race.

Sick how we can be openly racist in today's day and age. We have fought so hard for a meritocracy.