DEI and racism. | Imamother

↑ sushilover ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 11:55 am

ally wrote:

Lol. The whole need for DEI was because that was (is) the reality. People are discriminated against because of race, colour etc. Now those same people get to blame their bigotry on DEI.

How is it bigotry to say that race should not be criteria when hiring? Isn't that what MLK Jr fought for?

amother

↑ Peach

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 11:58 am

Rubber Ducky wrote:

If you are not hiring on merit, then it's racist. Period.

This calls into question the ability of any woman/minority/homo-trans-other hire. This is most important in positions like doctors, pilots, and engineers, where incompetence can mean people die.

Incompetent doctors, engineers and pilots aren't being hired based on race or because of any programs.

Just taking your example of doctors, there are objective studies showing that people of different cultures - or WOC don't receive the same levels of care from doctors.

Women of any color often present symptoms that are very different than males - the most common example being female heart disease and heart attacks.

Many women now prefer female doctors - is it valid to consider gender?

What about fields like psychology - often cultural background is critical for really understanding a patient and the patient feeling heard.

Many studies, ad campaigns, media are all a product of who is producing those things.

Again, by immediately going to the trope of DEI hires lacking merit because the best person isn't objectively hired is just hogwash because for many positions historically the best person was *never* hired because they weren't white; they were't Protestant and they didn't have a p*enis.

amother

↑ Pumpkin

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 11:59 am

ally wrote:

Lol. The whole need for DEI was because that was (is) the reality. People are discriminated against because of race, colour etc. Now those same people get to blame their bigotry on DEI.

That's what antidiscrimination laws are for. Simply swinging the pendulum in the other direction and saying "your turn to be discriminated against!" is not ok.

↑ sushilover ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:04 pm

amother Peach wrote:

If there is a good reason, backed by science, for a minority or woman to be hired, I'm all for it. If you need a black model to show your dark foundation, hire only black models! If you know that there is a need for a female TSA agent to pat down women, hire women.
But that's not what OP is talking about.
She is talking about the increasingly common and racist practice of prioritizing gay, female, or minority applicants for no reason other than optics or government intervention.

You are right that historically we did not live in a meritocracy. I hoped we had improved as a society.

We didn't. We just call it bigotry to point it out.

↑ ally ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:06 pm

sushilover wrote:

How is it bigotry to say that race should not be criteria when hiring? Isn't that what MLK Jr fought for?

Sure. But the reality is that society does not change overnight. So you need some stop gap procedures to help get there? Is it perfect? No. Is it better than the status quo? I think so.

↑ ally ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:10 pm

sushilover wrote:

The problem is without having diverse people in positions of power, their perspectives are often missed. So men are less likely to think about the need for female TSA agents. How do you propose to jump start this process?

dancingqueen ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'm going to disagree with you on the bolded. I think we should be allowed to speak the truth. Discussing statistics that reflect badly on certain segments of the population isn't racist to me. It's reality. saying someone is a DEI hire might be hurtful but why is it racist?

Once a company says they are hiring based on DEI, Unfortunately I think every diverse hire is suspect regardless of how qualified. There's simply no way to tell if the person was hired on merit or DEI.

Technically we have free speech as a first amendment right. But that doesn’t mean that saying every thought that you have aloud won’t have consequences.

Yes calling someone a DEI pick is racist. Not recommended to say that online or at work because there can be consequences.

Last edited by dancingqueen on Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ sushilover ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:22 pm

ally wrote:

Why wouldn't men recognize that women need to be patted down by women? Are they that dumb?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:26 pm

amother Peach wrote:

In your examples the doctor or psychologist has a certain benefit or expertise because of their race or gender that others don't. Therefore they are actually the most qualified and their hired should be considered merit based.

↑ sushilover ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:27 pm

ally wrote:

No. It means it's ridiculous to pretend that america woke up one day and became perfectly equal society without anyone taking formal steps to make it so.

America has fought long and hard to be better at offering equal opportunities and becoming a meritocracy. It didn't happen overnight.
Companies openly saying that diversity is a critical criteria when hiring takes us right back to the past.

leah233

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:28 pm

Many years I met a woman whose job was making sure that affirmative action quotas were being met in government hiring. I asked her about the standard complaint of white males being very discriminated against and unfairly treated when it comes to government hiring practices . She looked genuinely puzzled about what I was saying and answered "Well, Of course. Isn't that what affirmative action is supposed to accomplish?"

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:37 pm

ally wrote:

You're giving examples where the DEI hire is actually the best candidate even if it is because of race or gender. So essentially they aren't a DEI hire.

Are you in favor of a classic DEI hire where race and gender won't benefit the position? Theoretically a black truck driver where race and gender don't factor into the job.

If suppose a company is looking to hire drivers. There are more experienced drivers with better driving records- but they are white. Should the black driver be hired ahead of the white applicants?

↑ ally ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

I think that the main purpose of DEI is what I am talking about. I also think without DEI, those people are less likely to be hired.

amother

Eggshell

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:57 pm

amother Peach wrote:

This thread is going to devolve into the usual imamother posts.

That said stating that someone is a DEI hire is racist because the implication is that the person is unqualified and hired solely because of that and would not have been hired otherwise.

The reality is that having employment focus on diversity that actually reflects the population can have important benefits to a business as well as being appropriate.

I am in a field in which white Xtian men traditionally predominated - they are part of the old boy's club and yet no one is bothered about the reality of their being hired because they were part of an old boy network - went to the same schools - in the same frats.

The bosses who hired them were more comfortable (even subliminally) with people who looked like them and so women, POC etc. had more difficulty - even with the same qualifications and experience - getting hired and promoted.

I know this as a woman because it is my reality in a business - had to be twice as good and work twice as hard as the idiot in the next office because I had a vag*ina

Why are you allowed, for example, to search for a female-only doctor when that's what you feel comfortable with (Just becouse she has a v-a as you call it), but your boss is not entitled to hire in his company the gender/Race he feels comfortable with?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 1:13 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

So a company announces that they are interested in DEI and will be hiring a disproportionate amount of minorities.

Fast forward a year and we shouldn't wonder if the hires are the most qualified or DEI hires?

Didn't the company themselves say they will hire based on DEI?

Disney and United airlines are recent examples of this.

amother

↑ Melon ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 1:22 pm

sushilover wrote:

The powers that be in your company and the supervisor are racist for choosing someone based on race.

Sick how we can be openly racist in today's day and age. We have fought so hard for a meritocracy.

We have fought so hard for meritocracy and yet it doesn't really exist yet. So what do we do when we have fought and it hasn't worked.

Ideally, DEI focused hiring would be saying "Hey, there are lots of skilled women and minorities. Let's hire some of them". Because as obvious as this sounds, these groups are typically overlooked. I work in a field that is very male dominanted. So with DEI, I might get my resume in more easily, but I still need to be qualified to get hired.

Some people might be hiring based mostly on race or gender and that is just a terrible practice. And yes, it's lazy and racist.