Teacher vs me. Why do I always feel I'm the 'wrong' party?

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 9:51 pm

I work in a niche position in a school, providing a service that parents pay for privately. Although I'm self employed, my schedule is coordinated by the school, with the principal for all intents and purposes as my boss.

My time-table is rather complicated at the beginning of the year, trying to fit all the sessions within the framework, bearing in mind that there are parts of the day that kids are not 'available', either due to being taken out for other reasons, like resource room, school guidance councillor or just because a particular child has to be in class right then.

Some teachers are very flexible and easy to work with, making it easy to support their students, as well as creating an atmosphere of 'we're both here to help the child'. Many teachers fall into this category.

Then there are some who find it hard with the disturbances, especially when they are explaining something and the child isn't in the classrooms or such. But within a short while we usually manage to arrange a time-table that works.

And then...there are others. I'm sure they don't mean to complicate things, but it sure feels like that. I try to be accommodating, asking them for all/any times that they prefer no kids are taken out, as well as times which won't affect the child/lesson/classroom.
I understand that it's disturbing, but this is common service in schools, and is as necessary as any part of the school day.
Every single slot is another complication, either it's a craft they just can't miss, revision for a test, the kid shouldn't miss chumash...everything!

Of course there is room for flexibility, and there are times when we swap sessions to accommodate, but a couple of teachers find a reason every single time why it's not convenient just then. It seems to me that these couple of teachers think that their role in the students day is important, and everyone has to fit around them. Never mind that it could mean a different child missing their slot, as long as it fits in with them, nothing else matters. Sad

The principal is very helpful, and supports me in ironing out these things. She's a lesson in diplomacy, and 95% of the time all runs smoothly. Until a couple of weeks before the end of the term. One teacher received her schedule as usual, and called me a few times in a matter of an hour, in addition to leaving a message with the secretary, plus a Watsapp asking me to call her asap. I called. She literally blew my ear off, saying how inconsiderate I am, saying that those sessions are not happening. In. Her. Class. That. Week.

I was literally crying. I've been so so so accommodating to her all year. I always ended up giving her what she wants bc it wasn't worth arguing, at the expense of the cooperative teachers. But guess that's life sometimes, those who shout the loudest get heard Sad

I was feeling really yucky after that call, and put it over to the principal, who supported me, saying that it's not okay for a teacher to feel she has the last word, and I should proceed as per the timetable, and she'd deal with the fallout. I did that, but it was uncomfortable, more then a little bit.

My problem is that I just found out that she will be my dd's teacher next year. And I don't know what to do. It's going to be so disastrous if I'm having to deal with things in a way that she feels unfair, not a positive thing for a teacher/child/parent relationship.

Asking for dd to be placed in the parallel class is not an option. I could grin (or grimace) and bear it, trying to show her attitude doesn't bother me, or I could avoid taking students from her class, also not really practical for various reasons. In a school, cooperation is more then 1000% necessary, and without it, things get so complicated.

The thought of having a issue every time I go into her class, putting up with her mishugasen each time, while needing to keep things cordial for dd sake is driving me crazy. She literally makes me feel that she's doing me a massive favour every time she 'lets' a kid out to come out to me.

On the other hand, maybe she's right. If I'm working on a one-on-one/small group basis, the actual work is the same whatever time of day, whereas in a classroom there's less room for flexibility..

I will add that I have a great working relationship with 95% of the staff and parents.

WWYD? Any teachers, service providers, etc here who can help me with this thorny issue?

amother

Dahlia

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:02 pm

Why isn’t it an option to place dd in the parallel class? There’s a real chance she will treat dd badly because of her bad feelings (however illegitimate) towards you. I would not want my daughter to go through a full year like that

amother

DarkGreen ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:04 pm

The way that teacher spoke to you is completely uncalled for an inappropriate.
I’m glad the principal has your back

I do want to bring up that it is very hard on teachers when students are constantly missing class. We then we have to somehow find time to catch the student up on whatever they missed (and it can’t be during recess or lunch because why should the child have their few minutes of break a day taken away?) and it puts a lot of extra strain on the teacher.

You also bring up the teachers saying that students can’t miss because of crafts - I just want to point out the teachers perspective here. I will always fight (respectful of course) for my students to not have to go to the resource room or kriah specialist during a craft or fun activity in class. Those kids are usually already feeling different and upset that they have to be called out of class and then still make up the work, why should they have to miss out on the fun parts that the rest of their classmates are doing?

Just wanted to bring up the perspective for you but I’ll be honest the teacher who will have your dd seems much too rigid. Are you sure you can’t have your daughter switched? That seems like the best solution

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:08 pm

amother Dahlia wrote:

She's been in the same class since kindergarten. To be in a different class to her friends is quite a major step. Generally, kids only change classes if their mother/older sister will be teaching that year and won't be good for the child, or some other real issue.

There shouldn't be such a lack of in this situation to warrant a class change, just a little flexibility. On the other hand..

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:16 pm

amother DarkGreen wrote:

Thank you for your post, you really see both sides.

I'm very aware that it's hard on teachers when kids miss class, in particular with the kids I work with as they go out at other times as well.

But, as I wrote in my OP, I'm very aware of this, and work with each teacher to make it work all round. If a teacher asks me to switch slots on occasion I do so happily, but with this teacher, I can just never get it right. An believe me, she ends up getting 'priority service' all the time.. It's never good enough.

She's been to the principal a few times, and while she's been told that there will be inconvenient times, it's something she just has to cope with. So she let's the kid out, but makes me feel like trash.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:30 pm

amother OP wrote:

Could the school swap the teachers so that your daughter's entire class gets a different teacher?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:38 pm

amother Burlywood wrote:

Could the school swap the teachers so that your daughter's entire class gets a different teacher?

Hmm..that could be a possibility. The Principal is aware of the issue and is very supportive of me standing my ground, I could definitely bring this up. On the other hand, a lot of thought goes into which teacher has which class, many things are taken into account which I'm not privy to. It's a large school with lots to take into consideration..

amother

↑ DarkGreen

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

I think it’s worth the ask. Especially as the principal already is aware of how this teacher has treated you.

amother

Magenta

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:44 pm

Just putting this out there:

I know you have hard feelings, but try putting your emotions and history aside for a moment.

Can it be this this teacher may actually be good for your daughter? Maybe she will benefit from the structure? From a teacher who tries to make sure that the students are gaining the most from her and fighting for them how she feels best?

amother

Copper

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:45 pm

If your schedule is arranged by the principal, have the secretary page the student to the school office for your sessions and pick her up from there. That leaves you out of the fight.

(I get it. The stress of trying to help students while making sure they don't miss crucial learning or physical activity time or special activities or parties or too much down time/socialization time with friends...the guilt and juggling act is insane. The kids still need the services but I don't know when!!)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:51 pm

amother Magenta wrote:

You know something, you have a point. My dd strives in a very disciplined atmosphere, and without all these hard feelings, I'd probably be happy to have her as my daughters teacher. My other daughters have never had her, either they had the parallel teacher or she was out on maternity leave and came back for the rest of that year in a different capacity.

But I do remember feeling a little disappointed that dd wouldn't have her, she IS a good teacher. I'd forgotten about that!

I guess each character trait has it's good side and bad. Thanks.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:54 pm

amother Copper wrote:

For a while I was kinda doing this subconsciously. I often ask the student before to call a kid from X class rather then go in myself... I just found the 'I'm doing you a massive favour' attitude horrible.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:16 pm

amother Magenta wrote:

I'm quoting your post again, because I emailed my principal today, we had a conversation, and she actually said this very point! (Maybe you're my principal lol, she's a very wise woman when it comes to relationships, is always able to see both sides, usually managing to placate both parties, in this case with the same advice as yours!)

So I don't want to have my dd change classes, she's going into 6th grade and is a happy, well adjusted child with good friends. my principal agrees that it would be too drastic a step. To change the class teachers around, again, is not an option as a lot of thought goes into the right teacher/pupil fit. Had I thought about this earlier it could've been taken into consideration, but not anymore.

She said, as you did, that this teacher is extremely loyal to her pupils and does her utmost best for them. What I see as annoying and rigid, she said, is part of that, she wants her pupils in class as much as poss for their good.

She suggested that I try if possible to take her kids out when it works for her (each teacher fills out a form giving me the best/ok/worst times for taking the kids out) even if I wouldn't necessarily be so accommodating. She suggests that I ask her if it easier for her if I take them out at the beginning/end of the lesson, or perhaps, if appropriate, take 2 kids out together. Additionally, there are pockets of time when other teachers take the class for some periods, and as long as it's not detrimental to the child, I should capitalize that.

On the other hand, she said that it's self understood that there WILL be times when it's not great for her, and I shouldn't try too hard to please, because I'll become a doormat. She added that although she runs the school in a way that we are team players, for the sake of my daughter, I should go the extra mile, and be'H she'll appreciate that, and it will go smoothly.

She added that I must act with confidence, and not become defensive if she's unhappy at times. And to know that she has my back if I hit a road bump...

teachkids

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:24 pm

1) sounds like the teacher doesn't appreciate why these kids need you to pull them out. You need to straightforwardly explain "ever notice how x can't y, he comes to me to work on that. It's important we work on it so he can do the work in your class"

2) she's also being insanely inflexible. If I'm doing a craft, I schedule if for the one period of the day when no one is being pulled out. I work around the therapists as long as they have consistent schedules. One school they would come when they wanted and expect us to make it work that moment- that was really annoying.

3) is there another therapist pulling from that class that you can both pull the same time so teacher has less disruption?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:41 pm

teachkids wrote:

Yes, so most teachers are great, they are flexible and although it's disruptive we work together for the good of the kids. I do think it's unfair that the easy natured teachers have more disruptions just because they see it as working together as a team, and put up with disruptions for the greater good, and end up 'losing out because they're nice! But that's how it is in life I guess...

Pulling out at the same time as other therapists/one-to-one/sen teachers could work here or there, but not terribly practical as some of us are part time, some full time, and although some kids go out multiple times, some only go to one of us.

Additionally we share offices, often if I take a kid out who also goes to Mrs A, we have the use of the rooms at different times, so this wouldn't be an option.

My principal said that she hopes that if she sees I'm making an effort to accommodate she'll appreciate it, and hopefully come towards me as well.

imasinger

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:48 pm

It might be that having DD in her class could actually help with the unpleasant interactions.

Perhaps you could reflect to her how you now understand firsthand how much time and effort she puts into her schedule, and how much she cares that every girl benefit what she has to offer, and it must be so challenging to have to deal with your pulling girls out.

Kind if like the old Jewish joke:

Lawyer: Mr Cohen, how old are you?
Mr Cohen: ka"h, 82
Lawyer: Sir, you must just give a clear answer for the record, without any extra comments. Now, let's try again. How old are you?
Mr Cohen: ka"h, 82
Judge: Sir, please answer the question plainly.
Opposing lawyer: Your Honor, I think I can help. Mr Cohen, ka"h, how old are you?
Mr Cohen: 82.

Sometimes, it changes things if you preempt one part of the conversation.

Last edited by imasinger on Wed, Jul 24 2024, 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Bronze

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:54 pm

This is one of the reasons I stopped working in the school system. The logistics were an absolute nightmare, and l always felt like I was the one doing somersaults to try and accommodate everybody.

amother

↑ OP

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 3:27 pm

imasinger wrote:

You know something, you're on to something! Really like this idea!

I'm thinking that if I say something like 'you're so devoted to the kids, I see how much you want them to succeed, I can see how kids going out disrupts things.'

I'll have find an opportunity as close to the start of the year as I can.

Could be she's frustrated by disruptions, she seems not to be able to go with the flow as much as other teachers, and feels misunderstood. Like noone realises that it's hard for her.

I think that this is great advice, it could well make her realise that she is understood, yet sometimes it's necessary. Thank you.

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