Do you really think Hashem wants us to wear lacetops?

amother

↑ Wandflower

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:21 am

amother Begonia wrote:

Yes. Otherwise he would have said what type of coverings aren't allowed. I think this a holier than thou question and attitude. People like to feel good about themselves by putting others down and making more restrictions on themselves.

Who would have said? Hashem?

giselle ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:21 am

If your Rav says it’s ok (which mine does), why is this any different than wearing a beautiful tznius gown to a wedding? It makes you look beautiful, does it not? I don’t think the point of tznius is to look unattractive. There are certain guidelines to follow and there’s nothing wrong with wearing beautiful clothes as long as they fall under those guidelines. Shouldn’t a wig be the same?

amother

↑ Begonia ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:23 am

amother Mintgreen wrote:

The lace top technically fulfills the mitzvah of covering. I think the issue is more nuanced and anyone who is claiming she don’t understand the potential issues of many of our wigs, is not really being honest with herself.
It’s not only the wigs, it includes the whole glam look, tight clothing, underwear lines showing, chewing and cracking gum, loudly shrieking in public…. And other things that are not becoming women of royalty…
Don’t make OP think she’s crazy and that you have no idea what she’s talking about. I think that most of us know.

Oh please this is such a stereotype. I wear a lace top and my clothing isn't tight or showing lines and I don't chew gum. Give me a break. And you can't see hair through a lace top and I've never seen anyone's hair through a lace top. I think people love to judge others and make themselves feel better by putting more restrictions on themselves

Ambassador Girl

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:28 am

There's a concept that every person needs to ask their own Rav when there's a halachic doubt. And the answer you get from a Rav who has yiras shamayim is your way of serving Hashem.
"Shivim panim laTorah" and as mentioned earlier, there are 12 shvatim with different paths. Hashem doesn't need the same exact MO from all of us.

I know most Chabad rabbanim say that the mitzvah is to cover your hair, period. All of it. You can do it with a pot, or a snood, or a wig. The mitzvah isn't about looking less attracting to men. It's between us and Hashem.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe personally sponsored expensive wigs for women who promised to wear them, before it became the in thing.
His vision is that women should feel beautiful while doing the mitzvah 💯 because if you don't feel good, it'll be less likely to stick.

So lace wigs, according to that, are completely kosher and maybe even more ratzon Hashem since women feel beautiful doing this hard but special mitzvah. That said, hair needs to be covered completely too according to Chabad rabbanim. So no bits on the side, or sheitel a bit offset from the hairline, or see-through cap. Many women add a layer or more to their lace cap to make sure hair isn't visible through. This isn't an issue with skin caps.

I've seen women in lace wigs with no hair showing and women in shpitzels with hair showing. I'm not Hashem. I can't say what He considers more tznius or if it's different for each person. It's just some food for thought.

At the end of the day, we're all sisters, and we're all doing the best that we can to bring Hashem joy. Can we remember that and love each other despite our differences?

sushilover ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:31 am

I believe that Hashem would prefer if I didn't have a lace top. That's why he put me in my specific situation, with my rav and my minhagim.

At the same time, I believe that He is happy with my sister wearing a lace top. That's why she was given her specific situation and rav .

Conversly, He wants my sister to fast on minor fasts and He is happy with me not fasting. See how that works? I'm not better than her. She's not better than me. We are different, with different lives and challenges. We both have to work hard to listen to our inner voices and our rabbanim so that we know what Hashem wants from each of us.

↑ SuperWify

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:44 am

amother Wandflower wrote:

Why does one need to be a navi to suggest that it seems a little odd to cover your hair with hair that is even more glamorous and leaves the original hair exposed? This requires a navi?

A person that claims to know what makes G-d happy sounds like a Navi to me.

notshanarishona

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:51 am

Personally I don’t think Hashem cares. If it’s an issur to look attractive then makeup would be assur but yet there are no halachos limiting it. The mitzvah of kisui rosh is primarily to show that you are married. I can think of maybe twice that I wasn’t sure if something was a sheital or hair but 99% of the time it’s obvious.

↑ OddoneOut1

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:52 am

I heard a beautiful thought for a big Rav- that a man achieves greatness through Torah and a woman with her tznius (don’t ask me to define greatness…) and he said if you see a woman that positively influences society, (greatness) she is someone who is working on her modesty. He specifically noted that if that woman appears “less” modest than you or your standards, you should realise that on her level, she is someone who is working on her modesty. So the woman who struggles to wear a wig and wears a lace top is definitely someone achieving this level. Someone who grew up with more tznius boundaries but does not actively work in this mitzva is not greater. Key is that you do have to be intentional about this mitzva- be it clothing or behavior

PinkFridge ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:55 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

I like this.
At the same time it's not a mitzva to sport a very eye catching elaborate kisui rosh.

Some wraps might seem eye-catching.
It's hard to say, well, that's your community when we travel and interact with others so much. I think women have to do what they know is right for them, with someone to ask/consult for a reality check (e.g rebbetzin, other) and then carry herself proudly.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:57 am

amother Topaz wrote:

??? I don't understand your question.

Michtav MeEliyahu has a nice EXPLANATION - not a chiddush - about madreiga and bechira. He is explaining something that has always existed. I'm not sure why you think he just made up the idea. Aside from which, I'm pretty sure the gemara mentions different madreigos and so on.

I haven't read all the posts but by mentioning nekudas habechirah, one might be saying that some forms are better than others. And I don't know if I can say, this sheitel, this mitpachas. It's a matter of knowing where you and what is most appropriate for you. Then one can say, this is the best, another way (e.g. how much hair to show, on purpose, not) is not. Because there are legitimately different halachic views.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:59 am

Ruchi wrote:

How can Hashem be happy if the wig actually defeats the very purpose it was intended for?
I don't wear a lace top but as it is , I feel and my moral conscience tells me that my lovely human hair wig is not the ideal thing.
Covering one human hair with another human hair? It doesn't sound right.
Wigs were a modern invention and the original ones looked like straw. Back then it was a big deal to wear the straw looking wig. But now, it's descended into something that can be even more beautiful and luscious looking, than ones own hair.
There's no two ways about it, there's been a decline and I come guilty as charged. I wish I'd have tne courage and strength to change.

But there are a lot of non-lace that look really good and aren't obvious to those who don't know wigs.

amother

Mocha

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:59 am

Perhaps one of the reasons Hashem gave us this mitzva is so in modern times (as in todays day and age), we can also be tested on sinas chinam, judging others etc.
after all, there’s so many options these days. In ancient times it was just a cloth tied around their head in some way (or not covered at all).
Hashem wants us each to do our own very best and then not judge others on it.
Hashem doesn’t see your “right way” as the next persons “right way” in HOW you cover your hair.
Signed, yeshivish Lakewood who spent extra money on a wig so it’s not lace top. Because I decided that’s the one I should wear. Not my neighbor, friend or cousin who went through the same school etc as me.

amother

Saddlebrown ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:00 am

I agree with OP.

Lace top wigs defeat the purpose.

A few weeks agp, The Yated Magazine did a pamphlet with letters from many different great Rabbinim, where they wrote clearly that lace tops defeat the purpose of the wig and are therefore not allowed.

BUT- I have a feeling that this thread is not going to end well.....
because not everybody is on the level where they can hold by this ideal standard.

I personally would never wear a lace top, but I do understand that some people are not on the level where they are able to hold by this ideal standard, so I cannot judge them.

↑ giselle

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:02 am

amother Mintgreen wrote:

I wear lace top wigs. I don’t wear tight clothing, I’m a little obsessive about make sure I never have underwear lines, I most definitely never ever chew gum in public (truly can’t fathom how people do, but that’s for another thread), and I can’t remember the last time I shrieked at anyone. So no, I have no idea what the OP is talking about. Just because there are people who do this has absolutely nothing to do with lace top wigs.