Do you really think Hashem wants us to wear lacetops?

amother

↑ Dandelion ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:02 am

Great point!
Best to talk to your org and research the mitzvah
particularly we don't want to inadvertently disseminate misinformation or discourage chas v shalom someone from covering or mix in someone's shalom bayis chas v shalom

amother

Wandflower ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:02 am

amother Dandelion wrote:

We need moshiach now!
What have you done to bring Moshiach now?

We can each ask ourselves this question.
And refer to our mission statement.
To make this world a dwelling place for Hashem.
Get guidance for yourself from a good rov.

Hatzlocha!

I'm not sure the mission statement was clear about lacetops. In fact I'm not sure the mission statement was clear about covering.

I've always wondered why the torah (our guide) is seemingly unclear about guidance.

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:15 am

amother Dandelion wrote:

when unclear ask a shaila for yourself to your rov

And then 10 rabanim will have 10 different answers.

And if you ask me did hashem want everyone to do something different depending on where they live and who they ask, I'd say no.

It doesn't make sense that the women in Teaneck NJ hashem is ok if they wear lacetops but not the women im Boropark.

amother

↑ Springgreen

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:16 am

My rav holds that the purpose of the mitzvah is NOT to look married. The purpose of covering is to protect the bracha bestowed upon a married couple under the chuppah. And that that’s why regular wigs are muttar because it doesn’t matter what you cover with as long as it’s covered and it isn’t sheer

amother

↑ NeonBlue ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:17 am

My mom's avodat hashem is very heavily laced with OCD. Ironically(or perhaps not at all) she is a teacher and educator. The line 'Do you think hashem is happy that you....' is one that I have heard from her my whole life. Do you think hashem is happy that you are opening your top button? Do you think that hashem is happy that you you are wearing a skirt less then 4 inches below your knee (even if it covers at every angle)? Do you think hashem is happy that you are wearing a pink shirt?
Today I feel bad for her. She never actually realized that hashem can be proud of us. That he is happy to have us as children. That we are worthy of love just because and worthy of admiration for all the hard work we put in as mortals and not as angels.
OP, I hope you find peace and joy in your avodas hashem.

amother

Topaz ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:25 am

amother Papayawhip wrote:

Do you really think He doesn't want us wearing lace tops?

Yes, I do think that. Do I think Hashem will bring the world down on us because women wear lace tops? No, but I do think there might be certain women who wear them, who Hashem thinks can do better than that. Then, of course, there are other women whom Hashem is proud of because they have overcome major hair-covering nisyonos and have come to the point that they are willing and/or happy to cover with a lace top.

For myself - and plenty of other women; don't kid yourselves - it would be a major step down in tznius; for others it's a major step up.

amother

↑ Topaz ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:26 am

amother Wandflower wrote:

And then 10 rabanim will have 10 different answers.

And if you ask me did hashem want everyone to do something different depending on where they live sha who they ask, I'd say no.

It doesn't make sense that the women in Teaneck NJ hashem is ok if they wear lacetops but not the women im Boropark.

Why not? Hashem judges each woman on her own madreiga and at her own nekudas habechira (see Michtav M'Eliyahu for a nice explanation.)

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:29 am

Ruchel wrote:

My plain opinion
Hashem might be thinking WOW with all that happens they still cover their hair

That. Or hashem is thinking, I can't believe I told them to cover their hair, and they cover it with other hair that is more glamorous than the original.

singleagain ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:30 am

amother Wandflower wrote:

Do you think the 12 shevatim all did everything the exact same? There were 12 different tubes/tunnels at kriat yam suf for each tribe at the splitting of the sea bc each one has a different path to take to the same place.

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:37 am

amother Topaz wrote:

Why not? Hashem judges each woman on her own madreiga and at her own nekudas habechira (see Michtav M'Eliyahu for a nice explanation.)

Sefarim written thousands of years after the torah was given often have every opinion.

I don't believe the torah ever mentions this concept of according to your own madraiga. The torah is our guide. If that what the torah wanted it would have said so, no?

The michtav M'eliyahu was written thousands of years after the torah. What happened during all those years? How does someone say 3000+ years later that this is what the torah meant?

amother

Cyclamen

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:39 am

The OP didn't trigger me because of sheitels since I don't wear a sheitel with a visible hairline. It triggered me for another reason.

I think it's presumptuous to speak on behalf of Hashem's desires - unless He has communicated them to you directly.

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:40 am

singleagain wrote:

That isn't halacha from the torah. The issur of erva is from the torah. I don't think there should be 10 different opinions about it that are essentially based on where a person lives.

↑ singleagain ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:41 am

amother Wandflower wrote:

That isn't halacha from the torah. The issur of erva is from the torah. I don't think there should be 10 different opinions about it that are essentially based on where a person lives.

Sure, erva is from the Torah, but how to define that erva is interpretation.

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:53 am

singleagain wrote:

Sure, erva is from the Torah, but how to define that erva is interpretation.

This entire topic is confusing because the torah is our guide and was apparently unclear about it.

In fact the entire idea of covering comes from the story of a sotah who's head covering is removed during the process. And from there we
learn a woman must cover.

If hashem wanted to tell us a d'oraisa why comminicate it in such a vague unclear way? It never made sense to me.

tweety1

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:55 am

Ruchi wrote:

How can Hashem be happy if the wig actually defeats the very purpose it was intended for?
I don't wear a lace top but as it is , I feel and my moral conscience tells me that my lovely human hair wig is not the ideal thing.
Covering one human hair with another human hair? It doesn't sound right.
Wigs were a modern invention and the original ones looked like straw. Back then it was a big deal to wear the straw looking wig. But now, it's descended into something that can be even more beautiful and luscious looking, than ones own hair.
There's no two ways about it, there's been a decline and I come guilty as charged. I wish I'd have tne courage and strength to change.

Such a beautiful post. Sometimes while putting on my non lace gorgeous wig I also have that guilty pang hitting those little chambers on the left side. It is what it is.

↑ singleagain

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:56 am

amother Wandflower wrote:

Speaking of sotah... I remember hearing that one commentary it's not defined as uncovering but rather unraveling, which simple means that the hair was done up in braids or something....

Yes, it is frustrating that lots of things are not spelled out directly. But, maybe there's a reason for that as well.