Where did I go wrong? Or did I? Be honest but gentle please

↑ giftedmom ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:04 pm

amother DarkGreen wrote:

Wow, thats pretty late.
I know families with ten year olds who have a bed time between 8 - 8:30.
Why such a late bed time?
Mine are older now but at 10, bed time was 8ish.

Now in camp he’s on a similar schedule so I guess we’re not an anomaly. My 6 year old goes to sleep at 8:30 in the winter and 9:30 in the summer.

amother

Snowdrop ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:10 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Now in camp he’s on a similar schedule so I guess we’re not an anomaly. My 6 year old goes to sleep at 8:30 in the winter and 9:30 in the summer.

Sounds super late for a six yo!

↑ giftedmom

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:11 pm

amother Snowdrop wrote:

Sounds super late for a six yo!

He has adhd so can use an even later bedtime tbh. In the summer he bh falls asleep quickly because he gets that energy out but in the winter it can take him an hour or two to fall asleep.

mom24b ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 9:53 pm

“It’s WAY past her bedtime-8:55pm to be exact !” OP this is your wording. Her bedtime was at 8:40. 15 minutes past bedtime is not WAY past , it’s 15 minutes. The fact that you report the exact time as if 15minutes late is a catastrophic infraction, makes me wonder if you have anxiety around needing things to be done just right, and needing to be the perfect parent . Did you view it being already 15minutes past her bedtime as a personal failure? Is it possible had she taken her tea first ,she may not have been hungry as tea can cause one to feel full but since she brushed her teeth first she started to realize she was hungry ? What would have happened if you allowed her to have some nuts and then she brushed her teeth again? Why was that not an option in your mind? What would have happened if you allowed her to have her tea first and then brush her teeth, even if she brushed her teeth “late” around 8:40? What would happen if you allowed her to go to sleep 5 minutes late? What are you so scared of? What is causing your hyper vigilance in her being in bed at 8:40pm and not a minute later ? These are rhetorical questions I suggest you ask yourself.
For all those saying it’s a “delay tactic” that may true , but I urge you to consider why a child is attempting to delay bedtime? They know they aren’t going to be playing any longer each time they whine, complain or come out. They are obviously needing/seeking something else. For some it’s extra security (separation from parent and being in dark room alone can be frightening to kids), for some it’s a need for connection, for others it’s likely any issues they encountered during the day creep into their minds at bedtime, or they may actually truly be hungry. OP it seems to me your anxiety around needing her to be in bed at 8:40 hijacked your ability to make rational choices. The fact you know it was 8:55 “to be exact”, tells me you were more focused on the clock then your daughters needs (for connection and possibly food). I suspect this is why it left a bad feeling for you. I suspect your subconsciously aware that something internal is driving your need for her to be in bed exactly on time, is over riding your ability to empathize, connect and be present for her and you don’t feel great because you actually do want to be a loving, empathetic, nurturing mother.
If any of this resonates with you I urge you to do some internal self reflection and try to understand what is driving your belief that she must be in bed at 8:40 no matter what.
It was not lost on me that you took the time and felt it important to mention you were cleaning the kitchen throughout your entire interaction. Why did you feel that’s important to mention? I know what I think it means, but it’s more important why you felt it was important to share. Be gentle with yourself and try to see if over the next few weeks you can answer these questions I have posed to you. I hope that will start you on a good path and give you clarity. The answers are inside you. You didn’t feel good because something in you is trying to tell you something. Try to reflect and see what that feeling is trying to convey to you. Hugs

Last edited by mom24b on Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Birch

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:03 pm

You feel yucky because it got too much.

10 is an interesting age, as you see, in some homes they are full independent little adults & in other homes still young children.

The look at your watch to calculate by the exact time & minutes seems pretty stressful, especially 10 minute increments. Idk if there is a way to recalibrate that.

But some 10 yo need 12 hours of sleep and some need 6 hours of sleep so physical needs vary a lot.

I think I agree with the advice to focus more on guiding over telling. Also not trying to figure out things in the moment but wait for a calm time.

amother

Garnet

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:19 pm

Agree with those saying this whole situation is too rigid. OP are all your interactions with her like this? Like with such detailed rules, with very little deviating?

amother

Sienna

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:28 pm

I think it's a bit much to expect a 10 year old to have the foresight and time management skills to remember to make sure their not hungry before their allotted bedtime.

Personally, I give my kids that age a heads-up before bedtime and remind to eat something now if they are hungry.

amother

Razzmatazz

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:29 pm

amother OP wrote:

I just had an interaction with my DD10 that left me feeling like I went wrong, but in the moment I couldn't see where. I want to hear what you would have done in a similar situation.

Her bedtime is staggered, meaning she needs to be ready for bed by 8:30 and then she can choose something to wind down with until 8:40 when she needs to go to bed. She usually reads, sometimes makes herself a hot tea, sometimes plays a game with an older sibling, or just shmoozes around.

Tonight she was playing Monopoly with her older sibling and came upstairs to get ready at 8:25. I was busy in the kitchen so I said, oh great that you came up already, I was just going to call you. She's in pajamas two minutes later and wants to make a tea. I asked her if she brushed her teeth yet, and she said no. I said I want you all ready first because I'm afraid you'll forget to brush your teeth after. She protested but went and did it anyway. Then came back to the kitchen and said in a whining voice, "Now I don't have time to make a hot tea! A cold tea I can drink any time, so that I don't need and a hot tea takes too long now. And also I'm hungry." I said, "so then you have to come upstairs earlier. You can't play so late and then when it's time to go to sleep then suddenly you're hungry and don't have time for tea. That's exactly why I had you brush your teeth first, so that doesn't get dropped. First you get all ready and then according to how much time you have left you figure out what you can do."

So at this point the whining and crying turned into a whole different discussion that she's hungry. I said, you can eat anything you want but not now. You already brushed your teeth, it's time to go to sleep. Then, I thought to myself be reasonable, offer her something to eat that she can quickly rinse her mouth and I said, "You can eat an apple and rinse out your mouth after." Her response was "I can't eat an apple. I want to eat nuts." I said nuts will stay in your teeth, if you want nuts, eat them earlier while you're playing Monopoly. Then DH walked in, opened the pantry and said, eat crackers, eat sardines, eat lentils (jokingly saying whatever he sees), eat applesauce. So I said, actually, applesauce is a great idea. So she looks into the cabinet, and kvetches that there's no applesauce. I look and there isn't, but there are apple baby jars, so I handed her one. She doesn't want it. So I said, so just go to sleep.

She took it and ate it all the while complaining that it's bitter and it tastes like it's spoiled. I said it's jarred, it can't be spoiled. "I knoooooooooooooow! I'm saying what it tastes like." Then older sibling tells her to eat soup and she says, but Mommy doesn't let. I'm so hungry and I'm always hungry and the last time I felt full was two weeks ago.

I'm continuing to clean up the kitchen, btw, the whole time this is going on. And then I said, you know what? You get ready for bed very quickly but after that it seems like you need more time before you go to sleep, so from now on, you'll get ready at 8:20, and you'll need to be in bed by 8:30 and since you always go into bed later than the time, it'll end up at 8:40.

So that set off a whole new tantrum how come she has to go to sleep only 15 minutes after her younger sibling and then she'll only have an hour to read and if she needs to take a bath she'll have to come inside from playing outdoors at 8:00 and at that time younger DC isn't even out of the bath yet... I responded calmly to each of her concerns, explaining that my goal is for her to be in bed by 8:40 but if in her head that means she can play till 8:25 then obviously it's not working cuz she doesn't have enough time, so by changing the time hopefully in her head she'll know she needs to be ready earlier, she'll leave herself more time for whatever problems she has like tea and food and what not.

Regardless by this point in time it's way way past her bedtime, 8:55 to be exact. I took her by the shoulder and led her out of the kitchen wishing her a good night.

Why do I feel so yucky?

(The cherry on top is DH walking in after and saying, she might actually be hungry. I said, I wasn't denying that, but somehow she didn't remember hunger five minutes earlier... It was only when I made her brush her teeth BEFORE the tea that it occurred to her. Never mind that the tantrum had way moved on from that.)

Thanks for reading this long post.

Oh wow. I am so sorry, but I do not understand where your parenting is coming from.
Maybe you can help me to better understand.

You are giving her so much added stress about making sure to get things done how YOU want them to be done, even if that means sacrificing what she wants or enjoys.
People pleasing is not an enjoyable quality to live with.

When you’re hungry during the day or night, do you go eat something?
When you’re thirsty at night, do you go drink something?
Because if you do, then why can’t your child do the same?
Why should she brush her teeth before drinking tea? Then the sugar and tea will stain her teeth…I’m not understanding.

Why don’t you show your child that you trust her to brush her teeth after? You can gently remind her to do so after.
Can’t you see how this same scenario can happen when she’s an adult and taking care of her children when she can’t find the few moments to make herself a tea AND drink it while it’s hot? And then feel the same way she felt when she was younger / that her needs don’t matter.

If an adult would be annoyed to not be able to drink her tea warm or her coffee hot, the same can be upsetting for a younger child.

What you’re doing is telling her that her needs aren’t important, but YOUR needs ARE important.
I don’t see your logic behind any of this.

Is this how you grew up? With your parents micromanaging everything you did to the exact minute?….
What’s this scrutiny with brushing teeth?….
Do you want her to develop anxiety about all these things?….

amother

Amaryllis

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:31 pm

My only issue with your story is that you expected your 10 yr old to notice the time while playing a game with her sibling and have the foresight to give herself enough time to get ready for bed and have time to eat a snack. My 9 yr old DS would never be able to do it without multiple reminders. I think that level of foresight is hard for a child that age.
Give her heads up about the time and she may need a few reminders. Also, if she was so cranky, it was probably because she actually was hungry.

thegiver

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:34 pm

Honey this is all so normal. She remembers everything she needs right when she needs to go to bed. At 8 o’clock tomorrow go in her face in a loving gentle way and say now is a good time to eat if he hungry or we can have home base time together (daily ritual bonding) until j need to get ready for bed. U want her to go to bed with love but at the same time boundaries. It is hard making boundaries with love. Time limits with precision seem antithetical to love which requires patience and politeness, qualities perhaps becoming obsolete in our impatient NOW generation.

imaima ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

Brushing teeth before tea makes lo sense.
Tea leaves residue on teeth, you need to brush them afterwards. Why can’t she have what she asks for ever? Like just give her what she asks without a million conditions.

amother

Turquoise

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 10:54 pm

The situation doesn't sound crazy and you don't sound super rigid. And the fact that you didn't feel good about the situation is a good sign Wink

Speaking from personal experience, it's hard for younger kids to go to bed when their older siblings get to stay up late.

A couple of recommendations:
Have a discussion with your daughter another time when she's not in the middle of something (with some good snacks around) about what you both feel is a reasonable time to go to bed. Try to work with her and try it out if she wants to stay up a little later. I usually explain to my kids that if I have to wake them up in the morning (for school, camp,...), it means their bodies need more sleep.

Give her a heads up half an hour before she needs to start the process of getting ready for bed that if she's hungry, now's the time to have a snack. That way, you can make sure she's not going to bed hungry and it reminds her to take a break and eat something if she really is hungry.
Hatzlacha Smile

↑ imaima ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 11:03 pm

amother OP wrote:

I do plan on discussing it with her tomorrow and getting her input. In the moment it was really hard to do since she kept on changing her complaints.

When kids do that, I offer tp cuddle on the couch. Sometimes that’s what they actually want.

amother

↑ Daffodil

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 11:09 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

It’s fine to have a schedule, rules and boundaries with children. Not sure why you are acting like this is a foreign topic. How old are your kids?

notshanarishona ↓

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 11:54 pm

I have a child similar age, 1) she goes to bed closer to 930-10; 2) I don’t micromanage her brushing her teeth ( I will remind but not you have to brush by x time or telling her she has to brush before eating ), 3) she can eat anything reasonably healthy for a bedtime snack as long as it’s not something that takes major preparations and just to procrastinate (ie she can’t bake a snack at 9 pm)

↑ notshanarishona

Mon, Jul 22 2024, 11:57 pm

Also a 10 yr old is old enough to brush their teeth independently, so just tell her you can eat what you want but then I expect you to brush/ floss again. I don’t see why what she ate turned into such a big deal (of course she wouldn’t enjoy baby food)

amother

Poinsettia ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 4:28 am

I didn't read other replies.

I think a lot depends on if this is a recurrent pattern or a one off thing.

Kids who are generally cooperative and on time, I'd let them have a hot tea/healthy bedtime snack once in a while even if it meant going to sleep 10 minutes later.

If this is a common occurrence where they're trying to push the envelope/don't eat supper and then are hungry/chronically late, or whatever other pattern, I would be putting my foot down as well. But also problem solving on the back end so were not constantly getting into these don't feel good scuffles.

amother

Tuberose

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 4:57 am

My 11 year old dd has an 8 oclock bedtime. I'm surprised about hiw much bed times vary here, maybe I'll make a spinoff.

I also don't give later bedtimes in the summer personally. I feel a consistent schedule year round works best for this dd. Specifically because she has adhd, the consistency helps her body sleep at the right times. But also I think that bedtimes are not to make.sure that they get up on time.for school, but because we sleep at times that are healthy and natural, and being jet lagged after late summer bedtimes.often backfires for us when it gets close to school start. Different kids need different things though. My 11 year old dd really needs a set schedule, my younger dd does better with following her cues, but she still has a bedtime too.

As far as what I see works me, I like having an actual numbered bedtime for dd. Because then it isn't personal, it is what the clock says. Because when I make exceptions then it tends to ruin the rules since my dd really likes to push the boundaries. So having a clear objective cut off really works for us.

We used to have a staggered bedtime for dd, but kept running into situations like you describe, so at some point we just made her bedtime the later time and said she can manage all her own time before that and she has to go to bed on time. It stopped all the negotiating etc. So maybe try that.

amother

↑ Lightgreen ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 5:02 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

Wow. That’s so early! This coming school year my 11 year old will be in sixth grade. To me that’s a big kid already. An 8 pm bedtime would seem ridiculous. He’s a boy so maybe it’s different?

the world's best mom ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 5:10 am

It sounds like you are very structured. Structure is good, but this sounds a bit too rigid. Some thoughts:

-I think if you won't allow food at bedtime because it might delay bedtime by 5-10 minutes, then you need to remind her half an hour earlier that she should eat then or she'll go to bed hungry. I never remember to remind my kids, so last night they had tuna fish at bedtime. I don't like the delay, but it weas my fault that I never remember to tell them to eat earlier. Sometimes I only allow fruit or crackers, but last night I had tuna so they had tuna.

-Brushing teeth should take place after all eating and drinking.

-If you tell her to brush before the tea, that means she can have tea after brushing. If that causes bedtime to be a few minutes late, that's not the end of the world.

-If she would have the tea first, she would not skip brushing teeth in order to be in bed on time. She would brush and then go to be 5 minutes later.

IOW, it's okay for things to take 10 minutes longer than the time you scheduled for it. It's better to do that than make her go to bed hungry. Bedtime schedules always take a bit longer than I plan, but it's okay.