New draft and frum families making aliyah

amother

↑ Yarrow

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:10 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

But why does ONE GROUP have to do this all of the time and do nothing else? As I replied already, god made time zones for a reason. There IS always continuous torah learning all over Hashem's globe.

ummm because one group made the choice to do all this time

and one group made the choice not to

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:12 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

The problem is all the benchwarmers I know would go otd if they were to go to the army. As if they are struggling and barely hanging on and figuring themselves out and are getting support to do so.

But LovesHashem, be real, these benchwarmers are already off the derech they want to believe they are living. They are not on the derech by virtue of them being non learners.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:12 pm

Reality wrote:

Newsflash: Then they are otd already. They are just fakers wearing black and white.

I'm going to disagree with that, I have close friends and family members that fall into this category. And a lot of them are good kids that are just figuring out their way in this confusing world we live in today.

I am personally thinking of quite a few people I know, still quite naive and sheltered to a degree and the army, working hard to stay with the right friends and not bad crowds etc.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:12 pm

someone wrote:

You see, now I'm confused. Maybe because there are two amothers here saying similar but different things. But the argument as far as I understood it was that learning Torah is the most important thing in the world and there is no way that Hashem would ever want people who learn Torah to stop learning to go fight. I asked what about the time of Mashiach, and I understand that you are saying that in the time of Mashiach it will be ok to stop learning to go and fight? Just not now because the army isn't the army of mashiach? Did I understand?

we have no clue what the army of mashiach even is, and right now its irrelevent, why are you so caught up on it?

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:13 pm

Reality wrote:

No army in the world operates like that. Armies want young people. They need young minds that can be trained to act in a split second. It is impossible to train a middle aged person to do counter intuitive actions.

A soldier is a soldier is a soldier. Once they have that training they can flip that switch back on if they are called to duty again.

Is there really a huge difference between a 21 yr old and a 30 yr old for training?

And you are right about other armies, but other armies are not dealing with an existential War right now.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:14 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

everyone loves to stereotype that so many ppl in yeshivas are bums etc but from what I see my husband and literally everyone in his kollel are kulo Torah, for real.

Are you serious?

Do you live in a chareidi neighborhood? Take a walk very late Friday night.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:14 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

I dont know that you can actually. BH bnei Yisroel have been here for thousands of years and it is bc Hashem wants it to be that way and Hashem protects us, not bc of the IDF, sorry. misplaced bitachon.

The way war is now a days is completely different from the times of the tanach. You can not compare.
And I am not saying its because of the IDF. Im saying that it is because of Hashem making tzahal work the way they do. There is no way besides yad hashem that the army has gotten as far as it has. Please dont tell me about misplaced bitachon.
Tzahal is just the vehicle that Hashem is using to get us to the end game.

↑ Aurora

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:15 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Is there really a huge difference between a 21 yr old and a 30 yr old for training?

And you are right about other armies, but other armies are not dealing with an existential War right now.

Actually, yes. There's a reason people age out of the Olympics. Younger bodies are just more able-bodied.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:16 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Nope, you are throwing a lot of hyperbole really. And not "able" to explain yourself half the time.
You wrote, and I quote "I'm asking because many non-religious people here, even if they hate chareidim with a passion, will actually use and need chareidim for religious needs or purposes".
What did you mean by that? Because all of us who were replying to you after were saying that there are many rabbanim not only charedim. So what was your point here?

Poster said he father hates chareidim. That's why I asked her this questions.
And my point is: There are people who are far from thrilled by chareidim *and still* when it comes to religious services for example they will have a chareidi Rabbi for wedding. They will have a chareidi mohel etc. They have the freedom to choose a DL Rabbi for chuppah and even a reform Rabbi for BM for example. Yet they still turn to chareidim. My question is: Why? Why turn to the black-white overweight penguins stuck in the Middle Ages when you can choose something modern and mitkadem.
AFAIK poster stated "yes to all" to my questions.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:17 pm

Reality wrote:

Newsflash: Then they are otd already. They are just fakers wearing black and white.

fakers wearing black and white? really?? what are they supposed to wear? plaid shirts and khakis??

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:18 pm

Reality wrote:

Are you serious?

Do you live in a chareidi neighborhood? Take a walk very late Friday night.

yes, I have, theres not really anyone outside very late in my community, maybe some people walking back from meals.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:19 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

im glad you realize that, but thats not what you, or whoever it was said before.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:21 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Ill tell you that most chilonim dont know the difference between different types of frum jews. I have many many chiloni relatives. Weve had this discussion with them many times. They dont know or see the difference between myself, a dati leumi woman and my chasidish relative who lives in chatzor haglilit. To them its all the same.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:23 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

im glad you realize that, but thats not what you, or whoever it was said before.

I have never said otherwise. I put my bitachon in Hahem and to me, I feel like we have had open miracles during this war, in the army and it is ONLY because hashem is the driver of the boat that this is happening.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:26 pm

Reality wrote:

That is why this thread is so insulting! The whole premise of this thread is frum=chareidi!!

Newsflash: chareidim don't have a monopoly on frumkeit!

Don't you see how nasty it is to list the 3 groups of Judaism as chareidi, conservative or reform?

Did I state chareidim have monopoly? No

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:27 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

we have no clue what the army of mashiach even is, and right now its irrelevent, why are you so caught up on it?

Because I'm trying to understand the logic behind the argument that it's never possible to leave the beit midrash to go fight. And again, I don't know if you ever learned the Rambam I'm referring to, but while we don't know when and who, we do know quite a bit about the things Mashiach will need to do.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:28 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

yes, I have, theres not really anyone outside very late in my community, maybe some people walking back from meals.

Do you live in a very small place?

Large chareidi neighborhoods have boys and girls hanging out until the wee hours.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 12:31 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

fakers wearing black and white? really?? what are they supposed to wear? plaid shirts and khakis??

That's besides the point. Does chareidi mean something or not?

A guy who is drinking, hanging around girls, watching inappropriate movies is chareidi as long as he keeps on his black and white clothes? He's only otd if he puts a pair of jeans on?