Another camp rant- showers!!

amother

↑ Ultramarine

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 8:49 am

mom1st wrote:

So what? Showering in a bathing suit might be a bit uncomfortable, but it's CAMP!
You make do with what you have! That is part of the fun!

If I as a parent are paying $3200 for a bit less than 4 weeks, I expect basics. Running water, working toilets, edible food, and the ability to take a shower properly.
I don't expect 5 star accomodations.
But camps can't play it both ways.

If the basic amenities are lacking because "it's camp it builds character" then the prices should reflect that.

amother

↑ RosePink ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 8:57 am

amother Jade wrote:

That's all fine for grown women.

Do you currently have teenage daughters?

My girls are still little. But I had all kinds of shower situations at different camps I went to. The only one I wore a swimsuit for was when there was no curtains or doors. And I work with teens and I know they're self conscious.

There's nothing wrong with being sympathetic to their feelings but I really believe we should not be trying to snowplow any challenges away from their lives. Figuring out how to deal with these situations builds resilience and helps kids become independent adults. If they're bothered, let them figure out a solution--shower in a suit, put up signs to remind people of a 'system' to know if it's occupied, switch with a friend who watches the door, advocate (for themselves) to camp leadership for better curtains if that's what they want. It's not about the curtains that bothers me in this thread. It's the attitude that parents want to help their kids so much (understandably) that it takes away opportunities for growth.

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:23 am

amother Snapdragon wrote:

I went to camp bais yakkov almost 15 years ago, I see based on here, that it was a "luxurious" camp lol
We had a door that locked, a 2×2 for towel/changing, then a shower curtain to the actual shower.
I remember maarava, when they had just moved to the new campus had "frosted glass doors" we put our towels over it to block it.

I was thinking CBY, all my girls went there (even my youngest, though she switched to Chaviva, went to CBY for two years) and they had rows of showers with doors and locks on them.
I definitely agree with posters that this should be standard in a frum girl's camp.
And what they did 50 years ago is irrelevant. We've come a long way (I hope) in acknowledging issues that are prevalent even in the frum community, and making the camp environment safe AND fun for our children.

amother

↑ Acacia ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:33 am

It's one thing for children to build resilience in situations that come up naturally, and quite another to just set them up for hardship or put them into unsafe situations on purpose. And IMO, for adults to deliberately make the decision to put girls in a situation where they have less privacy when nude is kind of creepy.

amother

↑ Topaz ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:35 am

Chayalle wrote:

I was jealous when I saw that.
I didn’t go to Chaviva but the camp I went to always has a machanayim game against Chaviva.

amother

↑ Acacia ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:40 am

amother Chicory wrote:

But we can't play it both ways. We teach the kids how critical tznius us in every way. We even have some camps with requirements that the kids have extra cover-up layers for swimming, and then we tell them it's OK to have a sparse curtain for showering.

It makes zero sense. We are literally expecting young girls to toggle their mindsets on and off, per adult discretion

That's an excellent point. Most of us deliberately cultivate that sense of modesty, which is the same thing that aggravates the indignity of not having adequate privacy when showering. Is sensitivity the same as lack of resilience? I don't think so. Certainly not when values are at play. And children would have more "resilience" if we raised them without values, but that's not something we want. We don't want them desensitized to tznius.

amother

Marigold

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:49 am

I don't remember caring about showering in camp. Some of the time we got 5 minutes for our bodies and washed our hair in the sink. With lukewarm water. But I went to sternberg over 20 years ago. As a staff member I went to raninu and chedva and the shower room had a few showers with only curtains. It was a quick experience. Didn't think about modesty. We all minded our own business and tried to get dressed in our towels

amother

↑ Topaz

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:59 am

In camp me and half my bunk had to pour buckets of water water over our head and shampoo outside wearing clothing one we’ve shabbos when there was no hot water in camp.

amother

↑ RosePink

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 10:55 am

amother Acacia wrote:

I highly doubt any adults *deliberately said "ooh, let's buy shower curtains that are a little too small so the girls struggle a little and aren't safe!" They just bought cheap curtains.

imamommy5

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:53 am

amother RosePink wrote:

I highly doubt any adults *deliberately said "ooh, let's buy shower curtains that are a little too small so the girls struggle a little and aren't safe!" They just bought cheap curtains.

And the charged an arm a leg for the privilege of attending

amother

↑ Brown

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 3:25 pm

Why are the girls sleeping in cabins with 7 girls all in the same room and not in houses with separate bedrooms? Why are the mattresses 1/4 of the size of a standard mattress? Why should a teenager sleep on a bunk bed? Why is grilled cheese considered dinner? Because that’s what camp is! The high cost is a different problem. If you change the living situation at camp then it’s not camp. It takes away from the whole camp experience.

amother

↑ Acacia

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 4:06 pm

amother Brown wrote:

That's fallacious. None of those things go against our values. Lack of modesty and privacy does. And summer camps that do have shower doors somehow still manage to provide a camp experience.

amother

↑ Chicory ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 4:31 pm

amother Brown wrote:

This is different, all related to comforts. With undressing we have an additional concern of tznius. That's a value we teach our kids and we suddenly expect them to be nonchalant about it just because we don't want to upgrade their accommodations.

amother

↑ Chicory

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 4:33 pm

amother RosePink wrote:

I highly doubt any adults *deliberately said "ooh, let's buy shower curtains that are a little too small so the girls struggle a little and aren't safe!" They just bought cheap curtains.

Yet, these same folks then heavy-handedly implement coverups for swimming.

You think the kids are not realizing this hypocrisy?