Maalot, bnot Elisheva, Bnos chava, bjj, ofakim?

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 8:17 am

indecisivemotha wrote:

Ok so we would have to think about that.
The principal suggested those 2 year post high school suggestions of maalot and Bnos Elisheva with the intention that my daughter would stay for 12th grade finish bagruyot and then move onto that.

You said your daughter wants bagruyot and wants higher education. The tracks at these schools are limited, and not all the programs are even for a BA but rather just a vocational degree.

It seems like she is advising you on what she thinks is best for chareidi girls, not personally what would actually be a good for for you daughter. Also I wouldn't be surprised if she wants your daughter to stay to have a better "influence" on the rest of the class and make her school look better. Sounds like a classic case of a school wanting to be more chareidi than it actually is.

I reccomend you hear from someone who actually knows your daughter.

Just my impressions but I might be wrong.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 8:20 am

amother Crystal wrote:

Ya. What is it these days? 20k USD. Israeli places are a fraction and she can have kodesh/hashkafa and leave with a form of parnasa.

Chedvas is 20k USD for America Israelis who don't dorm? No food, no lodgings, and no trips?

I find that hard to believe. Isn't that the cost of an American sem with 5 star trips and hotel stays across the country?

Are you sure you aren't getting mixed up with Chemdas?

↑ indecisivemotha ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 8:38 am

LovesHashem wrote:

So sad to talk about perfectly amazing schools as if they are second class. Alot of Israeli chareidi look down on Chedvas since they don't preach kollel is the best and only option, anything else is second best etc, and aren't against going to chareidi colleges.

A lot of high schools are so against their girls going, even though the environment is amazing.

Id bet this same principal thinks your daughter has the "potential" to continue to Yud Gimmel and Yud daled and not "ruin herself" in a "fake" chareidi college to mivchar or machon tal

I don’t know what to say, I mean personally I really have no experience with sems. But I do know it can be competitive and sems can affect shidducim. I think What she meant to say is my daughter has the option of reaching further or higher, some girls “best” option might be chedvas but my daughter has more than one option. Idk she said the words potential idk idk. The school for sure thinks they are more frum than they actually are. And you know what?? We went for the meeting and the principal was not at all shocked when my daughter said everything and how she wants to grow. My daughter has been told tons of times by various different teachers how she is such a דוגמא and role model for the school and girls. How is she supposed to grow?

↑ indecisivemotha ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 8:42 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I reccomend you hear from someone who actually knows your daughter.

Fun fact, my daughter keeps on repeating that sentance. She doesn’t trust the school counselor, and her 11th grade home room teacher wouldn’t be of much help. My daughter doesn’t even know who the 12th grade homeroom teacher is. Who is she supposed to ask?
She spoke yo a few girls older than her but some of them didn’t feel comfortable talking abt sem experiences and some of them say such good stuff it sounds like they are in real estate trying to sell u a house that hasn’t been sold in years.
I suggested getting her a mentor from somewhere in the area but she doesn’t want that. Any advice?

amother

Dandelion ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 8:45 am

There are three options no one mentioned yet.

Masores Chaya is high-level pure kodesh for very yeshivish American Israeli. The principal requires that you do a maslulim-type program in the afternoon.

There is a half-day kodesh program called machos lebanos in RBS. Great teachers and avira. BY hashkafa. Girsl do all sorts of things in the afternoon.

There is a program, I can't remember the name, tiferes something or other similar to masores Chaya, also BY but girls are from more diverse backgrounds. Headed by Goldie Silverstein, I think.

Shiviti's girls are BY but not really yeshivish.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:05 am

indecisivemotha wrote:

Really sounds like the principal is just preaching what's a derech for your daughter that is considered the most ideal in chareidi circles. But that's not what your daughter wants.

Obviously anything different is less than and a waste. There's for sure people who look at girls who go to Chedvas as literally off the derech.

Forget about shidduchim, your daughter will want to marry someone who matches her hashkafos and derech.

amother

↑ Crystal

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:06 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I thought Chedvas is the second year of Peninim. Chemdas didn't exist when I went to seminary Wink

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:06 am

indecisivemotha wrote:

It sounds like she is clear that she wants to do bagruyot and go to university. She needs to find people who have done that route and what the options are.

Stop talking to people who think that route is nebach and are trying to convince your daughter to change her mind.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:08 am

amother Crystal wrote:

I thought Chedvas is the second year of Peninim. Chemdas didn't exist when I went to seminary Wink

That was about 15 years ago. Rabbi Kahane bought the seminary after the Meisels scandal and moved it.

It's Shana Aleph no frills for year for American Israeli BY girls and Shana Bet for American girls who want a budget option that's not full time to do college on the side. No trips or anything, the Shana Aleph girls don't need it and Shana bet girls already did that.

It has more relaxed rules around curfew and stuff like that due to the girls being more mature and independent.

Many of the Shana bet girls have made aliyah or make after seminary.

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:11 am

indecisivemotha wrote:

I don’t know what to say, I mean personally I really have no experience with sems. But I do know it can be competitive and sems can affect shidducim.

I think you need to stop thinking in terms if American models. Israeli and American expectations in the years following school are very different. The only option here that could be described as sem is Chedvas. The others are all Beis Yaakov schools.

Is she hoping to marry chareidi and support a husband and family? Not having gone to a Beis Yaakov school is already putting her in a different category for shidduchim. Seminary isn't really a thing in Israel, and high school matters at least as much for shidduchim. If she wants to move into that world, doing yud-gimmel and yud-dalad in Beis Yaakov is one way, but not the only way.

If that's what she plans, some girls will put off university until after they are married.

↑ indecisivemotha ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:15 am

Ok so I’ll just put myslef out there. As a mother it doesn’t matter what happens in 50 years. I’ve told her I’m willing to support her and what she wants right now but finishing high school and getting a bagrut is a definite. She hasn’t come this far for nothing. And she is perfectly capable it’s not like she a weak learner or something. University I’m not sure she knows exactly what she wants about that. But she for sure knows and I just asked her that when she looks back one day she will never send her daughter to the school she is in. She wants better for her future. Idk her words not mine. Who could I turn to who has experience or would help me without trying to benefit themselves, school, Opinion. Someone who genuinely would want to help my daughter without being biast?

amother

Heather

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 9:21 am

1) American seminary tuition is now closer to $30,000.
2) I know an American-Israeli girl who was accepted to Bnos Sara which is a very high level American seminary. I think they have to pay the full American tuition though.

↑ salt ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:16 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I get a different impression from OP - I think her menahelet is saying that DD has potential in an academic sense, not in a 'closed and sheltered and frum' sense. But maybe I'm wrong.

Sounds to me like OP's DD would feel more comfortable in a standard BY setting but menahelet is pushing her to stay and get her bagrut.

Does she go to a school like Darchei sarah at the moment, OP?

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:23 am

I'm wondering why the menahelet was pushing Maalot and Bnot Elisheva more than any other school. They're both good schools, with nothing wrong with them. I know girls who've been to both. But they're not like the Yashan, which would be much harder to get into. Does she have contacts there, or does she genuinely think they are the best schools?

amother

Foxglove ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:25 am

OP where is your daughter learning now?
AFAIK maalot stopped doing bagruyot this year. Double check but I think that's the case.
Ofakim do not do bagruyot. It's 13th and 14th grade with a dorm, heavy limudei kodesh and hashkafa with some vocational options.
If you're looking academic, bagruyot etc, American seminaries are not on your path.
Bnot Elisheva could be an option but you'd need serious protekzia to get accepted for 12th grade.
I find your posts confusing as though I'm missing some big piece of information.
Where is your daughter learning now and why isn't she happy there?

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:26 am

Elfrida wrote:

Probably because OP is stressing bagruyot. Those are about the only 2 BY seminaries who offer a proper bagruyot option not chutzim.

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:31 am

amother Foxglove wrote:

Probably because OP is stressing bagruyot. Those are about the only 2 BY seminaries who offer a proper bagruyot option not chutzim.

Yes, but the menahelet also recommended that she stay where she is to finish bagrut, and then go there for yud-gimmel.

↑ salt ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:41 am

amother Foxglove wrote:

Probably because OP is stressing bagruyot. Those are about the only 2 BY seminaries who offer a proper bagruyot option not chutzim.

More probably cos Yashan/ Chadash are even harder to get into.
Or slightly more old-school charedi - fathers are avreichim, etc.

MAalot/ Bnot Elisheva, still standard but slightly more of a mix.
definitely not full bagruyot - a lot of their subjects are chutzim.

↑ Elfrida ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 11:46 am

OP, have you discussed long term goals with your daughter? What is,her goals gor the long term regarding religious development, career, marriage? She doesn't need to have all the answers, but at seventeen she should have an idea where she wants to go.

Then you can work on a plan to help her get there. Maybe having another year at a less than ideal school will turn out to be the best way to accomplish her long term goals. If that is the case, it will be easier to approach it with a goal in mind.

If it seems better to leave, you'll have the security of knowing that's done in the context of a wider plan, not just looking for a quick solution.