If you don't sleep train, what do you do?

↑ tichellady ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 6:01 pm

amother Birch wrote:

It’s so important for moms to be aware and understand the pitfalls of stretching feeds to 4 hours.
There is so much research that supports demand feeding and that’s universally the gold standard of feeding. Demand feeding is to feed baby when they are hungry, obviously with the understanding that you don’t want to go past 2-3 hours during the day.

There is so much misinformation about this and young and loving and caring moms are mistakenly making poor choices because they don’t know better.

We all gain from greater awareness and information. It’s incumbent on us all to spread awareness just as you were spreading information about the dangers of co sleeping.

There is so much damage done by CIO as well.
Helping moms understand that is helping them and their babies.
Good luck, op.

How does this help a mom who isn’t functioning on so little sleep? What exactly are you proposing? That she ignore her own health and needs?

amother

Hawthorn ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 6:04 pm

amother Tomato wrote:

I sleep trained at 7 months too. Sleep training isn’t easy emotionally for anyone, but it was my best option, and it went way easier than I expected. Firstly, establishing a good daytime schedule is super important, as well as a consistent nighttime routine. First night baby cried for 3 minutes after I put him down, I went in calmed him down and went back out. Whimpered on and off for 4 more minutes and was fast asleep. Similar story whenever he woke up that night. By night 3 he went to sleep by himself without crying for a second, and by the end of the week he slept through the night every night. Once he was sleeping better (and I was sleeping better) he became a happier, easier kid all around. He is in no way traumatized. Yes, there are still sleep regressions every so often, but going through them with an already great sleeper is by far easier. I was very uncertain about the whole thing before I did it, but at VERY for it now and recommend to anyone who is struggling.

I don’t think this is typically how it goes.

amother

↑ Nasturtium

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 6:11 pm

amother Birch wrote:

Most of your posts are quite nasty. There is no one right way. Throughout history “they” keep changing their minds which way is the way to parent. You want to educate do it in a nice way, show your sources and provide alternatives for what people are struggling with.

amother

↑ Heather ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 6:12 pm

amother Heather wrote:

When I sleep trained.
First 3 days DH second 3 days me the other week was either. (Daytime me)
Make a bedtime routine.
Bottle/nurse
Bath
Shema and other things you want to add.
Put baby down. And if s/he cries wait a few minutes and reassure baby. Rub it’s back say you’re here.
And again if it cries do the same thing (for first three days and nights)

Second three days move your chair a bit farther from the baby and repeat the steps if crying. (But wait another min or two)

From day 7 leave the room right away and if crying sit a few minutes and then come to reassure. By then baby should be able to sleep.

Same for daytime. If you read a book always read the same book.

(703) 661-9815 Susan sleep solutions.

Meaning it’s gentle and not cio.

amother

↑ Birch ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 6:15 pm

tichellady wrote:

How does this help a mom who isn’t functioning on so little sleep? What exactly are you proposing? That she ignore her own health and needs?

It’s really hard. Can dh help? Outsource other tasks. Taking a daytime nap when baby sleeps.
It’s very hard and I’m not in anyway minimizing it.
If there is a way to tend to babies needs and at the same time mom’s needs that’s best.

amother

↑ Birch ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 6:16 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Any quick search or research will show how scheduled feeds and CIO are harmful. Demand feeding is universally the gold standard.
I apologize if my posts were unkind.

miami85 ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 7:39 pm

1) just because a baby is "gaining well" and "not spitting up", doesn't mean it's not reflux. The clues would be "not wanting to lie down", waking up frequently, or frequent burps.

2)Is baby in your room? If yes, move him/her out ASAP. I learned that lesson the hard way.

3)If baby is fed, changed, not in pain, no gas/reflux, then it's ok for them to cry for a few minutes. Baby will be fine.

p.s. I had a baby who refused to self-soothe until 6months, we were on a car trip and we were in a situation where we couldnt pull over and there was nothing I could do for him, he wasn't hungry, he didn't need a diaper. He just had to cry-it-out while we were stuck in traffic. It was very hard to listen to, but in the end, he did learn how to self-soothe and he eventually fell asleep. p.s. we did figure out at one point it was likely reflux-issues, he's 6.5 now and still needs Tums occasionally.

amother

Amaryllis

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 7:41 pm

Op I just want to say that this difficult time does indeed come to an end!
I fondly reminisce the nights that I was awake all alone cuddling my baby, nuzzling her little head… while the entire continent was asleep. I ended up cosleeping and I was chronically bleary eyed. I don’t remember how it finally ended, but I want to reassure you that it does! (I was positive my daughter would keep waking me till she got married…)

amother

↑ Birch ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 7:42 pm

miami85 wrote:

Babies don’t learn to self soothe from being left to cry. They learn how to self sooth from being regulated by a caregiver who is there to soothe them.

They do learn that nobody will come so there is no point in crying anymore.

This is why research shows that cortisol levels of infants rise on the nights when the CIO “worked”. Although they aren’t crying they are in a lot of distress and that’s why they have high cortisol levels.

↑ miami85 ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 8:12 pm

amother Birch wrote:

Babies will cry because they "don't like the circumstance" they CAN learn what they need to make themselves happy. It is something they have to figure out eventually whether it is 7 months or 4 years-old. I have one child who was an incredibly happy baby, and when it was time for bed, she would wave "night-night" to everyone, she would "say goodnight to the baby in the mirror" as we walked by--we did this every night. She would even crawl/walk to her crib when she was tired. But as soon as I put her in, she would cry EVERY TIME. It was like a "catharsis" of "accepting that the day was over", she didn't cry for more than a few minutes and she was a great sleeper until she gave up her crib just after her 2nd birthday.
If EVERY time they cried, no one comes and soothes them ALL DAY--then babies learn to give up. If you have met baby's needs--hunger/thirst, diaper, pain, and you KNOW that they only need they have is sleep--then letting them cry for a few minutes will NOT damage them, it's them just expressing their sadness of having to leave mommy and end the fun of the day. Loving your baby is knowing that your baby needs sleep now and they have all that they need and they need to learn to fall asleep without mommy.

All of my kids are pretty-well regulated, happy kids now past infancy. The ones who have "sleep issues" its likely a reflux issue, or they go through this phase around 2 that they keep coming to me in bed, but they do outgrow it.

amother

Emerald

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 8:12 pm

I don’t know if this is called sleep training but what I did at that age was slept on the floor near baby and each time they woke up I would pat them to sleep reassure them I was there given them a drink of water, teddy or paci. it was hard but after a week of being very consistent it worked. It only gets harder as they get older and I always remind myself why I’m doing it it’s better to spend one week like this then the next few years struggling. Sometimes babies need help learning to self settle.

Good luck.

amother

↑ Birch ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 8:16 pm

miami85 wrote:

This isn’t accurate developmentally and biologically.
Letting a baby cry isn’t about being able to self soothe. This isn’t how it works.

Babies learn how to self soothe after a caregiver is there to soothe them and regulate them.

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 8:23 pm

I don't agree with your idea that just being there for the baby while not stimulating her with engagement is being mean to her.

She may not need much at night, just a little reassurance, then back to sleep. If she needs food, sure, feed her.

A pacifier might come in handy. The NUK kind. Using that, she can self-soothe.

The need for food and the need to suck are different things. If she is full, but still needs to suck, she will be unhappy at getting more milk. At that point, give the pacifier, so she can suck to her heart's content - it is a very powerful drive and instinct - without getting a distended stomach, which hurts.

↑ miami85 ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 8:27 pm

amother Birch wrote:

I said it earlier if you KNOW that ALL they need is sleep, then a few minutes will not damage them. If the crying gets sharp or escalates after a few minutes, then you know baby is not ready for sleep and you try again.
It's never "cry it out indefinitely".
At 7 months it is definitely "developmentally appropriate", they should be sleeping on their own.

↑ miami85 ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 8:30 pm

amother Birch wrote:

That is only true up until 4 months. After 4-6 months, babies can start figuring out how to self-soothe. 7-8 months for sure, otherwise you are setting yourself up for creating bad habits.

↑ cosa ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 8:49 pm

amother Birch wrote:

A baby or older toddler can be uncomfortable, scared and in pain. 15 minutes is a very long time.
How do you know they aren’t hungry or thirsty or need a diaper change. No baby or toddler should be left to cry for that long.

Bh a mother knows their baby's cries! (He has a sippy cup of water in his crib and yes he probably wants to eat, but it is not functional for a mother to survive on 2 consecutive hrs of sleep for over a year. That's why I wait to do this method when he is old enough to make it through the night without needing to eat. Diaper change that wakes him he will scream, yes , and I will go in immediately and change him. Teething he will scream and I will go in, etc. Now at 20 months he wakes rarely so I end up going in immediately if he ever cries, since it does indicate an issue. Before it was just habit.)

↑ cosa ↓

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 8:59 pm

amother Birch wrote:

I agree that CIO is not ideal. I don't think any mother goes into it thinking "I really want my baby to cry it out at night." It is something done out of desperation when there are no other options.

For myself, My husband wakes before 6 to go to shul before a 12 hr workday, and I wake at 730 with the kids. So no, I can't ask him to help at night. And no daytime naps for me since I work as well.

As for outsourcing other tasks, yes there's cleaning help, but what about supper, errands,carpool, taking care of my kids physically and emotionally, etc., on top of my job? do I need to let my kids and husband continue to suffer from an extremely sleep deprived mother (sometimes I would feel like I was literally going insane) just so I don't let my baby cry for 15 min 1-2 nights? Should I quit my job which pays for my cleaning help? There's also harm in being a "bad" mother, which is what I was a lot of the time when I was going thru this. Bh I'm at the other side of it!

CIO is a quick fix when nothing else is working, it's not a go to method. No one is claiming it's the "gold standard"

Last edited by cosa on Mon, Jul 15 2024, 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Cyclamen

Mon, Jul 15 2024, 9:00 pm

amother Birch wrote:

Any quick search or research will show how scheduled feeds and CIO are harmful. Demand feeding is universally the gold standard.
I apologize if my posts were unkind.

I think every parent should do what feels right regarding sleep, but I disagree that CIO is inherently harmful. (I work in children’s mental health.) Studies do show that having a depressed, anxious mother is harmful. The study you cited elsewhere regarding cortisol levels in sleep trained babies was very poorly done and is definitely not accepted as truth.