S/O HaShem gives number of children you can handle - source?

amother

Melon ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 6:56 am

amother Poppy wrote:

Chas v'shalom to ever say this to someone who is struggling with infertility! (If that's what you meant by hurtful)

I personally find it both comforting and reasuring. When I get overwhelmed with my children and I think how Hashem gives each person challenges that are tailored made for their neshama along with the kochos to overcome and grow from them - it's encouraging. When I think about having another child, and I'm already overwhelmed, but know that it is a Mitzvah and I think how hashem with each child hashem sends along brachos, and the kochos to raise them, I feel stronger and more confident.

I'm wondering how you can possibly see the bolded. To me the challenges make no sense. Literally none. And this remains until 120.

Are you saying you take comfort in understanding how hashem is tailoring unique challenges for each of us so that we can grow from it?

This one is abused, that one can't find a shidduch and the next one suffered a family tragedy. This person suffers from depression, that one has a health crisis, and the next one can't have children.

Where is the logic that would be comforting? To me there's no understanding. On the contrary- it causes a crisis of faith to try to reason and say it's all part of the master plan, And one day we'll know why it's really so good when jewish babies are kidnapped by terrorists. But no, for me there's no comfort or lesson. I see what appears to be cruelty.

amother

↑ Poppy ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 9:01 am

amother Melon wrote:

Of course this is not something to say to another person. That would be calous and insensitive. It's more self talk. We cannot rationalize Hashem's ways. Hashem created the world, we know he is good, and does only good. Sometimes it is very hard/impossible for us to see/understand. Chassidus teaches that the highest/ purest forms of Hashem's radiance tends to come down as the most painful circumstances to our physical sensibilities. Again, not to say to someone who is suffering, I am not going to tell someone going through awful challenges that hashem is being so good to them, just that learning this stuff, and working on emunah and connection to Hashem can bring tremendous chizzuk to a person in whatever place they are at. And I will say it is helpful to me in my life without having gone through the horrible things you mention, and I still get sucked up in my own pain, I get plenty discouraged with my challenges, yet with leaning on these torah teachings I can work to understand that there is a master plan, with an orchestrated who can see more than I can and who knows better than I do.

There are painful things on the world, and sometimes we do have challenges that we struggle to meet. That doesn't mean we don't have the untapped potential hidden somewhere. And that also doesn't mean we don't need help.

Someone else had asked for a source about hashem giving us what we can handle particularly children. I know I have seen but I will need to look for it. I think shear habitachon addresses this in a general sense, but do not recall precisely. I will try to look it up at some point

amother

↑ Poppy

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 9:12 am

amother Nemesia wrote:

So in the original thread OP said it as someone who's mom has more kids then she could handle. I agree with her as I'm the oldest if a large double digit family where both parents have issues that hurt and damaged a lot of their kids.
I agree with Shabbat too. I have one child who I waited a long time for and no hopes of having anymore in the foreseeable future.
In both circumstances this comment is horribly offensive. I actually cried, more tears of frustration at someone's stupidness then pain but still the same.

Please think before you talk!

Yeah. Ouch. I'm so sorry!

amother

↑ Skyblue

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 10:28 am

amother Vanilla wrote:

I find it insulting. I can handle more kids. That’s not why I wasn’t given more.

1,000%. It's rude and insulting for someone with a large family to tell someone with less that she wouldn't manage more! Only H' knows the reason, how on earth can claim to know why He blesses some people with more, some people with less kids! If anyone's had a Nevuah telling them why family X next door has 2 kids when she wishes for more, I'd love to meet them.

Yes, having a large family can be challenging even for those who manage well, but quite honestly having 1 or 2 children when you want more, especially in a environment where large families are the the norm can be WAY more challenging.

Some difficulties are (not all apply to all, obviously, so please don't shoot me)....

-Everyone around you can expect you to have time do so many extras, and are surprised when you turn down opportunities to do 'chesed'. Little do they know that you are busier with SIF appointment then they are with their large families. This leaves you with feelings of (misplaced) guilt.

-Finding the balance of giving freedom to your kids versus helicopter parents. This is way harder in a smaller family.

-Some things often come naturally to kids in large families, like sharing (things and space) and easygoingness-Moms of smaller fams often need to work so much harder at this.

-If you have one child, you want to give them world, yet don't want to spoil them. A very tricky balance.

-Not to make a child feel she needs to be successful in everything because all your eggs are in one basket. Again, a tricky balance between wanting your child to do well versus them feeling pressured.

This does not apply to people who have small families by choice, or those who are happy with less kids.

Instead of patronizing these Moms by saying 'you wouldn't manage with more', see them as heroes.

Maybe the 'spokesman' of these comments has lots of kids because they WOULDN'T COPE WITH THE CHALLENGES OF A SMALL FAMILIES. Let's keep our thoughts to ourselves.

sushilover

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 10:50 am

amother Melon wrote:

Some people find it comforting, others don't. It's not illogical or stupid for people to find comfort in the idea that Hashem gave me challenges that He knows I can handle.

Does anything comfort you when you are going through pain?

amother

Scarlet

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 10:52 am

Also when I'm walking/ dealing with my kids and people will be like "Wow! Your incredible!" (often when I'm with 1 in the carrier and 2 in the stroller) or something similar, and I'm like, what am I supposed to do? Give them up for adoption?
They're my kids and I need to take care of them, it's not a choice at this point.

I don't in any way feel like a great mother, I'm sure most other women do/ would do a way better job, but I'm the mother they've got so I have to give it my best.

Not that I don't appreciate a compliment, but does not completely neglecting our kids mean we are just incredible?

amother

↑ Nemesia

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:14 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

This might be a source for the idea:

Sefer midbar kadmus maareches:
The chida says
"Before the neshama is conceived, a malach takes him to the storehouse of appearances and cautions him that world you are going to is temporary and only after will you go to an eternal world. The soul chooses whether the body that will soon be created will be beautiful or ugly.... poor or rich...."

This source is for the idea that each person chooses their own challenges even before they were born. So yes, it might be possible that I have chosen to have only one child, it obviously is the challenge my neshama felt it can handle. That doesn't make it any less painful here on this world and only a very insensitive person woukd naje such inappropriate comments.

amother

↑ Melon ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:21 pm

sushilover wrote:

I suppose talking it out with people. Hearing ideas about how others dealt with something similar.

With hashem I find it to be blind faith. We have no real understandable conversation. No idea why he's causing it. No lesson to be learned. Nothing.

What I also find odd is that this is not the hashem we see in the torah. He rewarded/punished based on merit. Now it seems so random. Nobody knows why anything happens.

amother

↑ Melon ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:25 pm

amother Nemesia wrote:

If everything is chosen before birth, why do we get all riled up about things.

A terrible tragedy happened in Lakewood. Everyone is devastated.

Should we say that every aspect of this was preordained. The victims all chose this nisoyon before birth. It's all part of Hashem’s perfect plan. Why is anyone upset?

amother

Lightcoral

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 4:16 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Please show us the source because I personally thin that this sentence is just as silly as the one the OP was talking about.

The Ramban says (and is very well known) that a nisayon by definition is something we are capable of overcoming. Obviously it may be very difficult but within our capability to handle. So another way to look at it is as a vote of confidence from Hashem that I know you’re capable of and can overcome it.
Having too few or too many children probably falls under this category the same way too much or little money does.
Doesn’t mean handling the kids specifically but the challenge, so for some people have less kids than they want is their challenge.

amother

↑ Melon ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 4:52 pm

amother Lightcoral wrote:

What does it mean "we can handle" a nisoyon?
What does it mean "we can overcome" a nisoyon? How do you defind handle and overcome?

amother

Quince

Sat, Jul 13 2024, 11:28 am

amother Magenta wrote:

I’ve been wondering this too, and have never gotten a satisfactory answer.

I think of it as- you are capable of achieving through this what Hashem wanted you to achieve when He gave you this challenge. He gave it for you to respond a certain way and you have the power to respond that way.
That desired response could be anything, it doesn't have to look like what you or me would call "overcome".

And I can't know what Hashem wants of anyone else when He tests them, and I can only know that He wants me to do the best I can - in that moment- when He tests me!

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, Jul 13 2024, 11:37 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Interesting, I've never seen this, I'm fascinated by it actually. But while the idea may be somewhat similar, having a neshama choose it's physical appearance or circumstance doesn't necessarily mean that it gets to choose everything - when it gets married, how many kids, illnesses, etc. If everything was pre-chosen, there would be no bechira chofshit (free will), so it seems to me that this might not apply to everything. Also, even if it did, this talks about the neshama choosing, but our neshamas aren't all knowing, our neshama wouldn't necessarily pick only what it could handle, maybe jsut what it wants, we aren't Hashem or malachim. And it is the neshama choosing here with a malach, not Hashem choosing for us. I personally feel it is a stretch to say from this source that it means that Hashem only gives us the number of children we can handle, so I personally wouldn't count this as a source. Thank you for sharing though.