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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
-> Summer Camps
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watergirl
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 Fri, Jul 12 2024, 10:15 am
| amother Khaki wrote: | | I know that parents are getting very concerned that there will be no money to get refunds. |
This story sounds like every pesach hotel horror story, but with kids. I assume the money was already spent in getting the new grounds ready for the summer and there is nothing to give back. I hope I am so wrong.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 10:19 am
| watergirl wrote: | | This story sounds like every pesach hotel horror story, but with kids. I assume the money was already spent in getting the new grounds ready for the summer and there is nothing to give back. I hope I am so wrong. |
Exactly.
I spoke to a woman today. Her daughter was sent home last night.
The mother wants to try to get her daughter into a different camp for second half because if her first half plans were a bust, maybe her daughter can have fun second half.
But she already paid a full 3k for first half. She can't afford another 2500-3k for second half unless the camp reimbursed at least most.
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amother
Almond
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 10:49 am
I have a family memebr that worked as staff at camp malka for the past few years.
she actually left this summer (lucky woman)
she said she isnt totally surprised at the mess.
she said over this past year there was a lot of upheaval and disorginaztion and she was already unhappy with things she saw
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steak4me
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 10:54 am
| amother Almond wrote: | I have a family memebr that worked as staff at camp malka for the past few years.
she actually left this summer (lucky woman)
she said she isnt totally surprised at the mess.
she said over this past year there was a lot of upheaval and disorginaztion and she was already unhappy with things she saw |
This is such unnecessary lashon hora
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 10:55 am
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I have no stakes in this drama since I my children don't go to sleepaway camp (we can't afford) but maybe we can look at this as a kapara from Hashem. So many tragedies recently ..... Maybe this is instead....
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amother
Mayflower
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 10:57 am
| amother Pink wrote: | | I have no stakes in this drama since I my children don't go to sleepaway camp (we can't afford) but maybe we can look at this as a kapara from Hashem. So many tragedies recently ..... Maybe this is instead.... |
Looks like a man made “tragedy” in which bad planning, self interest, and mighty doses of ego got in the way.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:03 am
| amother Pink wrote: | | I have no stakes in this drama since I my children don't go to sleepaway camp (we can't afford) but maybe we can look at this as a kapara from Hashem. So many tragedies recently ..... Maybe this is instead.... |
Im uncomfortable with this line of thought especially for others.
Look. If I lost $3000 on this fiasco or MY child was unhappy, maybe I can say its a kapara.
It just feels wrong and rude and presumptuous to look at a situation where yenner is suffering and say its a kapara.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:03 am
| amother Mayflower wrote: | | Looks like a man made “tragedy” in which bad planning, self interest, and mighty doses of ego got in the way. |
Most tragedies are manmade ... Texting while driving , running a light, illegal passing, unsupervised psychopath ... For sure people should be held accountable but as victims we can view it as a kapara. I say this as someone who can't even afford day camp and keep my kids home
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admommy
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:06 am
This is not the Jewish way!
Camp Malka is reputable camp around for many years, and is run by experienced, intelligent, responsible people. The planned a summer this year... that didn't go as planned. They came up with Plan B which also didn't go as planned.
There are hundreds of girls that are caught up in middle, and of course they need to be cared for. But that doesn't mean that Malka and its directors are bad, negligent, or irresponsible;
Why the blaming? Why the shaming? Have you never made a decision that ended badly? Does that mean it was a bad decision? Is it possible that at the time of the decision, it was a rational, responsible decision, but it just didn't work out? If you are reading this I'm sure you believe in a higher power. Is it not possible that "mentch tracht and Gutt lacht" (aka "man toils and God foils")? If Hashem makes your plans not work out, does that mean your plans weren't good plans?
Malka's directors are very responsible, above board people. I don't know them personally but I'm involved in the camping industry and I know all the players. They worked as hard as possible to make a go of things. They have to balance safety, kids having a good time, kids+parents expectations, staffing, regulations, logistics, finances, and a myriad of other things that go into running a small city like Camp Malka. It's very easy for someone who never had the responsibility of having 800 kids signed up for camp and having to figure out how to make that happen, to post that they should have done this, that, or "what were they thinking". They were thinking that it would work. Just like we do when we make rational, intelligent decisions.
Sometimes things spiral out of control. B"H klal yisroel is blessed with askonim who are working to mitigate the situation. There was, and may be, some (minor) hunger, discomfort, and unpleasantness. Girls cried and may cry more. But let's keep things in perspective - no one will get hurt or injured, emotionally or physically.
Is Camp Malka being transparent? I'm not sure what exactly you expect. Do you think they have a team of PR people to respond to every email that comes in? This is a fluid situation for them, and has been for two weeks. They have a crisis on their hands, better for them to deal with feeding 1000 people that then to respond to your email about what kind of refund you can expect. They'll get to all that once thing settle down.
But even leaving aside the particulars, since when have we Yidden become so quick to judge? To blame? To shame? Have we lost our middah of being rachamonim? Malka's directors are also in need of that right now.
How would you want people to act if you were running camp Malka? And if you answer that you wouldn't have gotten into this situation to begin with... obviously you missed the point of this post. I just hope that if you ever are in a difficult situation, people are kinder to you than you are being right now.
Last edited by admommy on Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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InnerPrincess
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:09 am
| amother Pink wrote: | | Most tragedies are manmade ... Texting while driving , running a light, illegal passing, unsupervised psychopath ... For sure people should be held accountable but as victims we can view it as a kapara. I say this as someone who can't even afford day camp and keep my kids home |
But you're not a victim, so its not so nice to say this for others.
Yes, if my child last minute lost out on an experience they were very excited about, I would discuss topics of emunah and nisayon with them, and work through with them the concept of a kapparah (assuming they are at a stage where they can handle that, after I finish hugging, possibly crying, and eating ice cream with them)
As someone with absolutely no skin in the game, both you and I should not be giving this unfortunate situation 'tragedy' like attributes, or explaining Hashem's reasoning, chalilah.
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InnerPrincess
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:10 am
| admommy wrote: | This is not the Jewish way!
Camp Malka is reputable camp around for many years, and is run by experienced, intelligent, responsible people. The planned a summer this year... that didn't go as planned. They came up with Plan B which also didn't go as planned.
There are hundreds of girls that are caught up in middle, and of course they need to be cared for. But that doesn't mean that Malka and its directors are bad, negligent, or irresponsible;
Why the blaming? Why the shaming? Have you never made a decision that ended badly? Does that mean it was a bad decision? Is it possible that at the time of the decision, it was a rational, responsible decision, but it just didn't work out? If you are reading this I'm sure you believe in a higher power. Is it not possible that "mentch tracht and Gutt lacht" (aka "man toils and God foils")? If Hashem makes your plans not work out, does that mean your plans weren't good plans?
Malka's directors are very responsible, above board people. I don't know them personally but I'm involved in the camping industry and I know all the players. They worked as hard as possible to make a go of things. They have to balance safety, kids having a good time, kids+parents expectations, staffing, regulations, logistics, finances, and a myriad of other things that go into running a small city like Camp Malka. It's very easy for someone who never had the responsibility of having 800 kids signed up for camp and having to figure out how to make that happen, to post that they should have done this, that, or "what were they thinking". They were thinking that it would work. Just like we do when we make rational, intelligent decisions.
Sometimes things spiral out of control. B"H klal yisroel is blessed with askonim who are working to mitigate the situation. There was, and may be, some (minor) hunger, discomfort, and unpleasantness. Girls cried and may cry more. But let's keep things in perspective - no one will get hurt or injured, emotionally or physically.
Is Camp Malka being transparent? I'm not sure what exactly you expect. Do you think they have a team of PR people to respond to every email that comes in? This is a fluid situation for them, and has been for two weeks. They have a crisis on their hands, better for them to deal with feeding 1000 people that then to respond to your email about what kind of refund you can expect. They'll get to all that once thing settle down.
But even leaving aside the particulars, since when have we Yidden become so quick to judge? To blame? To shame? Have we lost our middah of being rachamonim? Malka's directors are also in need of that right now.
How would you want people to act if you were running camp Malka? And if you answer that you wouldn't have gotten into this situation to begin with... obviously you missed the point of this post. I just hope that if you ever are in a difficult situation, people are kinder to you than you are being right now. |
Beautiful.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:17 am
| admommy wrote: | This is not the Jewish way!
Camp Malka is reputable camp around for many years, and is run by experienced, intelligent, responsible people. The planned a summer this year... that didn't go as planned. They came up with Plan B which also didn't go as planned.
There are hundreds of girls that are caught up in middle, and of course they need to be cared for. But that doesn't mean that Malka and its directors are bad, negligent, or irresponsible;
Why the blaming? Why the shaming? Have you never made a decision that ended badly? Does that mean it was a bad decision? Is it possible that at the time of the decision, it was a rational, responsible decision, but it just didn't work out? If you are reading this I'm sure you believe in a higher power. Is it not possible that "mentch tracht and Gutt lacht" (aka "man toils and God foils")? If Hashem makes your plans not work out, does that mean your plans weren't good plans?
Malka's directors are very responsible, above board people. I don't know them personally but I'm involved in the camping industry and I know all the players. They worked as hard as possible to make a go of things. They have to balance safety, kids having a good time, kids+parents expectations, staffing, regulations, logistics, finances, and a myriad of other things that go into running a small city like Camp Malka. It's very easy for someone who never had the responsibility of having 800 kids signed up for camp and having to figure out how to make that happen, to post that they should have done this, that, or "what were they thinking". They were thinking that it would work. Just like we do when we make rational, intelligent decisions.
Sometimes things spiral out of control. B"H klal yisroel is blessed with askonim who are working to mitigate the situation. There was, and may be, some (minor) hunger, discomfort, and unpleasantness. Girls cried and may cry more. But let's keep things in perspective - no one will get hurt or injured, emotionally or physically.
Is Camp Malka being transparent? I'm not sure what exactly you expect. Do you think they have a team of PR people to respond to every email that comes in? This is a fluid situation for them, and has been for two weeks. They have a crisis on their hands, better for them to deal with feeding 1000 people that then to respond to your email about what kind of refund you can expect. They'll get to all that once thing settle down.
But even leaving aside the particulars, since when have we Yidden become so quick to judge? To blame? To shame? Have we lost our middah of being rachamonim? Malka's directors are also in need of that right now.
How would you want people to act if you were running camp Malka? And if you answer that you wouldn't have gotten into this situation to begin with... obviously you missed the point of this post. I just hope that if you ever are in a difficult situation, people are kinder to you than you are being right now. |
This is the kind of accusation and gaslighting that are making parents frustrated.
We know things happen.
But COMMUNICATE.
If you send a one line email that everyone has supper, and my daughter calls me that she's starving and thirsty and I can't reach any adult, then what? I should sit back and say just trust.
Communicate regarding refunds. Communicate regarding everything.
Parents are getting frustrated because there is limited communication, daughters are calling for 10 seconds, crying but there's no one to reach
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:42 am
| amother Khaki wrote: | This is the kind of accusation and gaslighting that are making parents frustrated.
We know things happen.
But COMMUNICATE.
If you send a one line email that everyone has supper, and my daughter calls me that she's starving and thirsty and I can't reach any adult, then what? I should sit back and say just trust.
Communicate regarding refunds. Communicate regarding everything.
Parents are getting frustrated because there is limited communication, daughters are calling for 10 seconds, crying but there's no one to reach |
Agreed. I am ALL for supporting all yidden.
But when something like this happens, accountability and transparency is key.
The situation is crazy and kids are being gaslit. By the CAMP.
People upthread have posted ‘what kind of communication do you expect’. How about honest communication!
Maybe mothers do not want to receive an email that all the kids have beds and there is a buffet for those ‘still hungry’ and then get a call at midnight from a kid crying that they do not have anywhere to sleep and there was no food for them because they couldn’t push to get.
Also, giving people a free pass when they make a mistake is nice . However, burying heads in the sand is never a constructive way to move forward.
Learning experiences are formed when the root of issues are clarified.
Let’s admit what mistakes were made so this doesn’t happen again to anyone else !
The mistake here was
1-. It seems like ‘the show must go on ‘ attitude which is often great was taken too far. Because this is more than a business when it involves the supervision of kids. In order to take responsibility for kids, there must be a concrete plan for their needs being met.
No words to describe the idea of bringing girls to a location before things were set up and before ample food and water was there
2- twisting the truth. A lot of the hysteria was caused from receiving reassuring emails only to find that it is not true.
Of course , let us not kill the messengers. Lots of head staff had no say in any decisions yet are working their brains out to pick up the pieces.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:46 am
| watergirl wrote: | | This story sounds like every pesach hotel horror story, but with kids. I assume the money was already spent in getting the new grounds ready for the summer and there is nothing to give back. I hope I am so wrong. |
It's worse than the worst pesach hotel flop. This involves three flopped locations. Can't get crazier.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 11:46 am
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The owner was not missing in action. I spoke with a girl who saw him personally on grounds yesterday all day.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 12:05 pm
| steak4me wrote: | | This is such unnecessary lashon hora |
I’m sure many people would have like to have known this “lashon hara”. It’s letoeles! If known, it could have saved a lot of people so much heartache and money.
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 12:07 pm
| amother Crystal wrote: | | The owner was not missing in action. I spoke with a girl who saw him personally on grounds yesterday all day. |
That’s pearlstien from brc who came to help out, the owner himself was not there
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 12:08 pm
| amother Oldlace wrote: | Agreed. I am ALL for supporting all yidden.
But when something like this happens, accountability and transparency is key.
The situation is crazy and kids are being gaslit. By the CAMP.
People upthread have posted ‘what kind of communication do you expect’. How about honest communication!
Maybe mothers do not want to receive an email that all the kids have beds and there is a buffet for those ‘still hungry’ and then get a call at midnight from a kid crying that they do not have anywhere to sleep and there was no food for them because they couldn’t push to get.
Also, giving people a free pass when they make a mistake is nice . However, burying heads in the sand is never a constructive way to move forward.
Learning experiences are formed when the root of issues are clarified.
Let’s admit what mistakes were made so this doesn’t happen again to anyone else !
The mistake here was
1-. It seems like ‘the show must go on ‘ attitude which is often great was taken too far. Because this is more than a business when it involves the supervision of kids. In order to take responsibility for kids, there must be a concrete plan for their needs being met.
No words to describe the idea of bringing girls to a location before things were set up and before ample food and water was there
2- twisting the truth. A lot of the hysteria was caused from receiving reassuring emails only to find that it is not true.
Of course , let us not kill the messengers. Lots of head staff had no say in any decisions yet are working their brains out to pick up the pieces. |
This this this
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amother
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Fri, Jul 12 2024, 12:13 pm
| amother Begonia wrote: | | That’s pearlstien from brc who came to help out, the owner himself was not there |
Yes that is correct. He has been a tzaddik and has been volunteering non stop to help make things better for the girls. He is still there now, helping work through what is left with the mess of luggage .
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