Why don't most frum jews do 4th of july?

icedcoffee

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:43 am

amother Blueberry wrote:

Oh sweetie you must get out more. In modern day times you have work to finish by x time and no on cares which day you do it on. You really do live in a bubble. I’m laughing so hard. I and all my colleagues do exactly that in the secular world. I find it hard to believe that you never came across this work model. You can’t possibly live under a rock with your mo lifestyle.

This is the among the cringiest things I've ever read on the internet.

amother

↑ Blueberry

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:43 am

amother Ballota wrote:

This has to be the most condescending post I’ve ever read here.

Right not when she told me that I have no idea what goes on in the secular world because if I worked on July 4 I obviously must live in a frum bubble. Yeah ok I’m the condescending one.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:45 am

amother Blueberry wrote:

au contraire. the one in the bubble is the one who thinks every job in the secular world is one where "In modern day times you have work to finish by x time and no on cares which day you do it on."

the fact that you think this is how jobs in the secular world always work shows that you may be the one in the bubble.

amother Blueberry wrote:

Right not when she told me that I have no idea what goes on in the secular world because if I worked on July 4 I obviously must live in a frum bubble. Yeah ok I’m the condescending one.

you're twisting around what I said.

SunshineGirl ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 9:28 am

This thread is terribly disappointing. I am cringing. I understand it’s hard to feel “patriotic” right now with the current state of our country but that doesn’t take away from the fact that somewhere down the line, people gave their lives for this land. Regular people like you and me. People that were brave enough to say “we want freedom” and brave enough to go fight for it. For the people that said they aren’t raising their kids to celebrate this country, I really feel like you guys are apart of the problem.

What would this country look like if we stood together and fought for the amazing opportunity this country provides? The fact that most of you in the States can’t recognize that is really disappointing. For those of you who used the excuse that “Hashem is why this happened”, I counter you with the fact that Hashem gave the people who fought for this country and freedom the strength to do so. So that years down the line when the world was gassing and killing Jews, they had a safe place to land.

Feels to me like we have every reason to be patriotic, if not more patriotic than others. Again, this thread is terribly disappointing. G-d bless America!!

amother

↑ Brickred ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 9:52 am

amother Holly wrote:

Based on the bolded, why would you ever thank anyone for anything? If a person helps you, it's really coming from hashem so why say thank you to the person?

Ya no
We shouldn't be thanking dead g0yim for the good things they've done so while I disagree with not celebrating because of Hashem, that isn't a great argument to counter it

amother

↑ Brickred ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 9:56 am

SunshineGirl wrote:

People aren't dissing America. They're explaining why they don't celebrate/feel the need to celebrate the 4th. This isn't saying America is bad or that people didn't fight for freedoms. It means that we identify as Yidden who live in America and not as Americans who are Jewish.
There's nothing to cringe about.

↑ SunshineGirl ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:02 am

amother Brickred wrote:

Ya no
We shouldn't be thanking dead g0yim for the good things they've done

You don’t have to ACTUALLY thank dead people. What that probably means is “appreciate”. You can appreciate someone’s good deeds, even those who are dead and weren’t Jewish.

If you don’t believe this, don’t thank or appreciate your dead relatives for the good things they’ve done. Don’t even talk about them or acknowledge them. Yeah…you would absolutely NOT do this.

That’s like a non-jew saying “don’t thank the dead Rebbe for the good things he has done”. You would probably freak out if you heard this. Treat people the way you want to be treated.

↑ scintilla ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:02 am

amother Holly wrote:

Based on the bolded, why would you ever thank anyone for anything? If a person helps you, it's really coming from hashem so why say thank you to the person?

Good question, I was thinking about that as I was typing those words. I think the distinction is that the founding fathers didn't intentionally make America a haven for Jews - religious freedom yes, not the main point but yes, but Jews were not the purpose of them instituting this freedom. They were probably anti semites anyhow (yeah I think one of them wasn't but most people then were). Jews weren't accepted in much of the country until pretty recently (famous example: Bal Harbor real estate) and at the beginning of this country had less religious freedoms in many places.

In short, it wasn't their intention to specifically be a haven for Jews so that's why I'm not directly grateful to them.

↑ SunshineGirl ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:05 am

amother Brickred wrote:

It’s one thing to just not celebrate. No issue with that. I have my holidays that I simply just don’t do. Its understandable.

However, I will always cringe at the people who go as far as to say things like they don’t celebrate because of their kids getting the wrong idea, it’s not “Jewish” enough, etc. I view it as disrespect because I hold this country in high regard. But that’s just me.

↑ scintilla ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:10 am

SunshineGirl wrote:

I teach my kids to respect this country, to have hakaras hatov for the good it's done us personally and as a people, to respect police and the laws of the land and to try to benefit the society they live in. But I have no real connection with "the land" as a whole and definitely not with the founding fathers. And that's not something I want to emulate for my kids or raise them to do either.

I think it's nuanced though. I think July 4 is probably a good day to reflect on these values that I do want to impart, and sure fireworks, why not:)

amother

↑ Brickred ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:10 am

SunshineGirl wrote:

Are people actually saying those these things and you're responding to them or is this how you feel they regard it?

amother

↑ Brickred ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:15 am

scintilla wrote:

I think that in Yiddishe Hashkafa we're grateful to anyone that benefits plus, even if unintentionally. Think Moshe not hitting the Nile and the ground.... And those are inanimate...
I don't believe this has to do with having it not having gratitude for the founding fathers. It's more about what our identity is and what we feel OUR celebrations are.

amother

↑ Brickred ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:15 am

scintilla wrote:

Agreed

↑ SunshineGirl

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:17 am

amother Brickred wrote:

Are people actually saying those these things and you're responding to them or is this how you feel they regard it?

On the first page the poster by the name of Scintilla said this “ . I don't celebrate it with my kids either because I don't want to send the message that this is something important.” .

The entire post she made wasn’t bad, I am in no way saying that. But yes…people actually are saying this and using it as a talking point. Not just on this website either. And I personally have a huge problem with this.

sushilover

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:30 am

scintilla wrote:

Ugh. This is such a woke, project 1619 type of attitude.

amother

↑ Brickred

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:45 am

SunshineGirl wrote:

Oh interesting
While I disagree with your view, I interested what you're responding to

↑ scintilla ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 11:16 am

amother Brickred wrote:

I definitely agree with your second paragraph, I just think that my hakaras hatov is for the good America has done and not for the founding fathers specifically which is what the 4th of July is commemorating - it's Independence Day not America Day. Yeah same difference but I do feel a difference.