Appropriate response when 13 year old son hits me

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

Raspberry

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 12:54 am

amother OP wrote:

1. I'm not sure what the correct term is. Maybe it's an outburst. To describe it best, it's a situation where everything is fine, everyone is getting along well, and then someone will do something my son doesn't like and he immediately spirals into physically or verbally lashing out. It's reactive and impulsive. It has been going on for around a year. More than 90% of the time he's wonderful and less than 10% of the time he behaves this way. He does well in every way in school. He behaves very well all the time out of the home. He may joke around/talk in class but he stops when reprimanded. That's the extent of it.
"If you do nothing that he doesn't like and request nothing of him will they still happen?" Never.

2. Agreed, I feel totally lost. I was shocked and angry and reacted in the moment. But, even with time to think more rationally, I could not figure out the ideal response.

3. None of my other kids are like this (yet, hopefully never). My son said recently that I treat him more toughly (meaning, he gets more consequences) than the other kids. I thought about it and it's true. But he also does negative things that my other kids don't do.
"Or is this example typical of how you discipline them all?" Interesting. Perhaps. Most of the time I'm cool, calm, collected and discuss their behavior with them. But when I am so shocked or angry, I can go into reactive mode and just dole out a consequence without much thought.

1. Okay. So before a year ago, these outbursts did not happen? What did he do instead, how did he handle frustrations? Is there anything that did happen around that time that might have triggered it? Why do you think this started about a year ago? (Being a teen doesn't explain it, the hormones have been rising slowly but steadily for a couple years now.) Does this ever happen with friends, like if they go on a trip together, do you ever hear about inappropriate behavior with them/ in the neighborhood?

2. Right. And you don't have to figure it out right away. You can look him in the eye and say, "That was not okay. You will not hurt people. I will discuss this with Tatty and we will decide an appropriate consequence. Right now you are staying home the rest of the day. I will let you know what else happens later."

When you don't pay taxes do you get hit right away? If you steal do you get punished right away? If someone murders do they get jailed right away? We teach our kids delayed gratification but we also need to - and can - teach them delayed punishment. You have zero obligation to decide on a punishment on the spot. You can do what the authorities do and "detain until completion of legal proceedings against" the suspect. Don't be pressured into split-second decisions. It just hurts you, hurts your authority, and leads to less wise decisions.

BUT do make sure that if you say you will discuss it with Tatty and then come back with a punishment, that you come back with a punishment. If there's no time to talk with Tatty just figure it out yourself and tell Tatty. And you can even use this when you know the punishment but don't want to deal with the fallout by telling your son immediately.

3. That's an interesting observation. Has he always done negative things that none of your other kids do? If so when did that start, what did it entail?
You do need to find a way to stop your reaction when you get shocked or angry. There are techniques for this and I am sure you can find one that's good for you. It is hard but worth it and not just because of parenting, but in general.

Also, you are the mom so deep down you know the answer to this. Is he having these outbursts because there is something he struggles with and doesn't know how to handle, doesn't have a better way to manage his challenges/ emotions/ etc.? And it comes out more at home because he feels safe at home? Or is he doing this to push buttons, push boundaries, get back because you're treating him unfairly? Or some combination? Be careful because many times we mistake behavior as oppositional/ davka to ___ when it's just flawed perspective and lack of tools to manage. So don't answer right away, really think about it. But deep down you will know the answer.

amother

Maroon

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:01 am

Sweetheart. Toxic rage/anger management is an emotional issue. I wish you koach to recognize that. I would strongly encourage you to seek help based on that reality.

amother

Raspberry

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:06 am

amother OP wrote:

The entire incident seems to me to be an extreme example of my son's complete disrespect for his parents.

Two weeks ago he did something that also shocked me. We were driving and he was in the front seat. DH called to speak to my son about a game a team they follow had won the night before. It was a purely friendly call, not asking him to do anything or talking about an annoying topic. Here's a rough sketch of what happened:

Phone rings. I answer and put on speaker.
Hi Son, how are you? Wasn't the game last night crazy? What did you think of X's shot?
And my son, without saying a word, just hit End Call and disconnected.

Again, I know it sounds hard to believe but DH and son ordinarily have a great r/s. I was so shocked at the level of chutzpah. I asked my son why he did that and he said he didn't feel like talking. I said that's fine but just express that. Eg: Hi Abba, I don't feel like talking about the game right now. We'll talk later, bye.

But deep down I'm wondering, how did we get to this point?

When did this type of behavior begin?

But also, it sounds like he either doesn't care about others' feelings, doesn't notice them, or doesn't know social rules.

I would simply tell him, "You know, if you hang up on someone when they start a benign conversation with you, that person won't want to call you again. This is your father so he will call you again because he loves you. But what you did isn't okay and it is hurtful. You can't do that to others." And leave it at that.

Yes it could be chutzpa, it could also simply be a complete ignorance of social rules. Does he do other things that if you take off the chutzpa lens and assume he's not doing it to be chutzpadik, translate to absolute ignorance of social rules? With friends, teachers, others?

amother

Raspberry

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:08 am

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

Absolutely not! You’re modeling physical behavior don’t you see? Who was first to get physical? You. Only following that did he respond by doing that. A warning should be provided verbally with a consequence following after but do not take away something he wears. A child can lose their sense of self by doing that. Staying home when you guys go out is a great consequence, but you throwing away his item seems to me like your anger was playing a role here. Next time take a ten minute break before responding to his insolent behavior and provide a consequence that matches the “infringement” not too severe, and without you modeling bad behavior.

Please stop gaslighting OP.

What OP did wasn't okay and she recognizes that and came to ask for advice. Telling her that she was the first to get physical and brought the assault on herself by modeling physical behavior/ bad behavior - that's just crossing a line. Not okay.

No her anger didn't play a role in her getting hit. Her anger was the response to getting hit. She reacted wrong to being assaulted. But she didn't bring the assault on herself.

amother

Raspberry

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:13 am

giftedmom wrote:

FWIW I don’t agree with what op did because she handled it like a childish power struggle. I think it needs to be addressed a lot more seriously. This is not misbehavior. It’s in a different category entirely. I don’t know why I’m the only one here who sees that.

You're not the only one. I pretty much agree with all your posts on this thread. I'm just trying not to engage with people who believe that gentle parenting is the solution to abusive behavior and who want to blame the victim for being assaulted. Because there's almost never any point in engaging with such people.
(I wrote one post in response to someone like that. For OP's sake, and less to have a conversation with that poster.)

Rappel

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:26 am

I'm just quietly reading this thread to see what I can learn. I don't have teens yet, and I would be at a loss if they thought that any element of that interaction is legitimate. I'm learning from you, OP, and I appreciate your starting this thread

amother

Buttercup

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 1:54 am

One important thought:
OP mentioned her kids were watching. I think a major and immediate response is important to show in front of her kids!

Also, a lot of people recommend waiting till she cools off. I know that’s usually good advice but I also feel like the for teen himself - such a major infraction should have an immediate reaction.
Imagine if you touched a hot pot and got a burn the next day. (Maybe a generic immediate consequence (agreed upon in advance) and after cooling off a specific consequence)?

B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 3:48 am

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

She said it only happens at home around them…

Now. Im worried about the future, and his future family.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 3:51 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

We have had similar situations at home.

What I wished would have happened:

DH taking our son aside, making a very serious face and saying in a very serious “I mean real business” type of a voice:
“YOU. DO NOT. TREAT. MY. WIFE. THIS. WAY.”
Make it clear and scary.

Or

I wish my other kids would take their brother aside and punch him in the gut for hitting their mom and calling their father an “idiot”

Neither doesn’t happened, though.

Instead I remind DS that we learn from Torah, that respecting your parents is a sgula for a long life, meaning, disrespecting your parents is a recipe for shortening your life. And it’s my job to remind him that. Also I mention, that I don’t hit back because I consider myself physically and mentally stronger. I won’t hit someone who is weaker than me. Though many people he will encounter in life won’t share this attitude.

My son is apologetic. After an outburst he tries to be very helpful, will offer to clean/cook/organise/run errands… I can’t help thinking about his poor future wife. Or wives…

OP - hugs. You are not alone.

You dont want your other sons to fight your battles for you. It wont end well.

ora_43

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 5:29 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Punishment unfortunately doesnt work. Please dont ask me for examples but they abound, and are so sad.

Sorry but I can't agree with this logic. Just because punishment doesn't always work doesn't mean that we should just throw it out the window. 100% of humanity hasn't all been doing something for 100% of history for no reason whatsoever.

Sometimes punishment doesn't work, because some people are acting out because of mental illness or extreme impulsivity or addiction. IE, some people aren't capable of self-restraint on any level when it comes to certain things.

But in general, punishment is an effective way to stop bad behaviors. And in general, when punishment is taken off the table entirely, the consequences are not good.

Last edited by ora_43 on Fri, Jul 05 2024, 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total

ora_43

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 6:04 am

OP, I think your instincts are good. He did something over the line, you showed him immediately that it was unacceptable.

Please ignore anyone who's downplaying this. The real-world consequences for physical violence at his age are very bad, and they're only going to get worse. Grounding him for a day, even a special day, is not an overreaction.

Will it fix things? Probably not, or at least, not in the short term. It sounds like he really struggles with impulsivity and self-regulation.

(I think for some people that immediately hints at ADHD or autism or similar, but in my experience there are also kids who really are socially aware, even social butterflies, who struggle in this one particular area. I'm not saying don't pursue a diagnosis if you think it might help. But some kids genuinely fall outside those categories. If autism is A, E, F, G, M, Q, and ADHD is B, C, F, G, S, W, they're E and W. (sorry for the terrible analogy, but I hope you get what I mean))

Anyway. If a kid struggles a lot with this it doesn't mean that punishment is useless and you have to switch to therapy-only mode. But it does mean progress is going to be a lot slower and they're going to need more guidance.

What I'd add is this: now you need to sit down and talk to him about what happened, and about the issue in general. Name the problem you see (he keeps losing control and hitting), and explain why you reacted the way you did (eg being afraid of what happens if this behavior doesn't stop, or the fact that he's getting dangerously close to abusive). Ask how he's feeling. Does he agree that it's a problem? Does he agree with your punishment? (probably not; I'd hear him out despite probably disagreeing). What are his thoughts, how does he want to work on this going forward? If he has no ideas, I'd probably say something like, "I don't want this to be a power struggle. I'd prefer it if we were working together, instead of just me punishing you like you're still a child. But we need to have a way to address this, because it's extremely not OK."

tl;dr version - your instincts are good, keep reacting immediately to outbursts, just make sure to also have between-outbursts times where you talk about it and check in with him. And the more involved your dh can be in all of this, the better.

ora_43

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 6:07 am

Oh, and make sure you have a carrot to go with the stick. When you see he gets mad and doesn't hit, praise him for his restraint (not, like, in the moment. but later/ in general). Consider offering him a special outing if he manages to avoid violence for a period of time (however long is long enough to be impressive coming from him, but not so long that it would be extremely difficult).

B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:25 am

ora_43 wrote:

I never said dont punish, just pointing out that it doesnt always bring the desired outcome - especially if someone lacks skills and tools necessary to control his anger or need to lash out and hurt someone else. We are not talking about not making his bed, then yes, punish. There are consequences for someones actions and its important to teach that. But without the skillset, all the punishment in the world wont help.

amother

Bergamot

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:30 am

Some of the reactions here are scaring me. I have several kids ranging from 2 to 17. The behavior you're describing isn't typical and it's not ok. For a teen at that age to be physically and verbally lashing out abusively at his parents and siblings means that many many lines have been crossed. Your punishments aren't overboard, but neither does is seem to even be producing changes in behavior, let alone addressing the source. I would seek therapy for him alone, as well as sessions for you and dh on how to set boundaries and how to respond to violence or bad language.

amother

Tanzanite

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:38 am

It's not hard to see if he has the skills or not. If he can control his behavior in order to earn a reward, then he can be expected to act appropriately without help and therapy.

If he cannot, then he needs a lot of help. If this was happening a few times a year, that's one thing. But a few times a week? I suspect there are eggshells being carefully stepped on around him. He may be wonderful and pleasant 90% of the time but the other 10% must be resolved asap.

I would talk to him about better options he can choose to do in the moment and offer him a good incentive for carrying through.

giftedmom

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:44 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

I read the book “nonviolent communication”. It’s basically the Bible of gentle parenting. I believe even the author himself would not agree with these posters. He believed in protective use of force and would likely have that child removed in some way until he can safely be around his family.

amother

Oldlace

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 9:20 am

I didn't read all posts.
I do think that your reaction should be shock rather than punishment.
What would happen if when he spoke out/hit out you quietly stared him down and then turned away with a quiet "when you're ready to treat me with respect, I'll be happy to discuss."
You need to show that you're stronger than him emotionally.

I would also say that if this is happening frequently, something is going on. This is his way of crying out for help.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:25 am

giftedmom wrote:

Dont take this advice, the child is removed and taken to a far worse place you wouldnt send your worst enemy to. Sure in a book, a sterile environment- this sounds great. But in real life, you are handing over the reigns to your sons life to a terrible system. They may give your son medications he doesnt need, he may see things and learn things you dont want him to, you are relinquishing your sons life to some system that he may not need.
Do whatever you need to do, get counseling, therapy, Rav whatever it costs but dont have your child removed.
If you feel unsafe, all of you leave the house for one hour. Then get good therapy for all of you.

amother

Garnet

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:27 am

amother OP wrote:

I appreciate any thoughtful responses. I don't mind criticism; I'd like to learn something from others who can avoid or navigate these situations better than me.

Background:

My son just turned 13. He is our eldest; we have 4 younger children. He is smart, kind, and popular. He has no social or emotional issues. However, a few times a week he will start a fight or lose his temper and things spiral quickly. He will likely name call, swear, or hit one of his younger siblings (most likely) or either me or my husband (less likely).

My husband and I are involved parents. We express our love to our kids, try to keep them active and really like spending time with them. I am more of the disciplinarian. I think that I give my kids a pretty loose leash but do not tolerate meanness/physical abuse.

I was a terrible teen and mouthed off to my parents all the time. I'm not proud of it but I think it's normal for kids to express anger toward a parent. But an older child hitting a parent is beyond the limit, in my opinion.

Today:

My son got annoyed at me because I told him to stop spraying room spray around the kitchen (he thought it smelled bad in there) but he did not stop so I took the bottle away from him. He reacted by whacking me with a t-shirt he was holding, hard. He then said "oops, my bad," and tried to pretend it was an accident. It was intentional.

I took the tshirt (his favorite one) and threw it outside in the big dumpster. I told him he was grounded for the entire day. It's July 4th and we have a few fun events and activities on today. He cannot join us. He showed no remorse, tried to pretend he didn't care he was grounded (I know he was very excited to go out today/tonight) and then told my husband to "shut up, idiot" when DH tried to explain the consequence.

This is not the first time something like this has happened. I know that if we don't figure out how to manage this it will likely escalate over the teen years. Also, my younger children are watching and learning.

Please advise. Is hitting normal?! What would you do in this situation?

Your reactions and consequences are over the top. You need IRL mentorship and parenting guidance.

Queen Of Hearts

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:33 am

The way to look it this is to deal with the Now behavior which is unacceptable. And most importantly to prevent him perpetuating this abuse in adulthood.
He has to learn that violence is Unacceptable. Whether he's tired, in a bad mood, dysregulated, etc he CANNOT release his stress with physical violence. Marriage and raising children causes way more stress than teenagehood.
The time to deal with this is NOW.
OP please confer with trusted professionals how to go about this.
Hugs and support.

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