Why are we over therapizing our children

amother

Amethyst

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 6:17 pm

amother Glitter wrote:

Speaking as a therapist, I agree. I used to see only kids and I came to this realization. Now I don't work with kids at all. It's much more beneficial to kids when parents work on themselves and work on being more effective parents. Personally, I can only think of very few reasons to send a child to therapy. I feel bad that child therapists are so highly in demand. It shouldn't be that way.

For my child who is 10, yells, hits bites even (not autistic) constantly poking fun.

Said child is constantly losing it in school when things don’t go her way. Losing it at classmates (yelling at them), even hitting classmates.
Seems like it’s stemming from high anxiety when things are not just so.

How can I help this child as a parent?

maestro

Fri, Jun 28 2024, 6:32 pm

amother Indigo wrote:

Can you share who the OT was?

Sure! They were Friedy and Roizy Guttmann. Someone mentioned them earlier in the thread. They have so many resources and do weekly talks, a podcast, courses, a membership, etc. They are very honest and empowering. And knowledgeable!!

They have 2 websites: www.handsonotrehab.com and www.handsonapproaches.com Hope it helps.

Edit: I just want to add that they are so caring. I remember they wrote a post on screentime some years ago and they were the first to explain what's happening in a child's brain when they are exposed to screens. It was so empowering. Not mom shaming or mom guilting. I realized when I read that the kind of messenger matters. Anyway, they gave me advice that shifted what I needed to do without needing therapy And I"m learning a whole lot more now. Good luck.

amother

Rainbow

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 5:57 pm

amother Seafoam wrote:

One thing people are forgetting is covid. It did a number on many people. Both adults and children. My daughter has anxiety. It was tolerable when she was younger. She was in first grade when covid hit. 3 months of tension and uncertainty affected her. Not going to discuss the other factors increasing her anxiety. But the doctor who prescribes her medication told me that anxiety in children who went through covid lockdown is higher than before covid. Exponentially.

Plus we have the current war in Israel. That has caused a lot of anxiety from almost all my children especially because know some of the victims.

I do NOT regret my oldest getting therapy. (My younger ones have only recently expressed distress regarding the war. My oldest has been distressed since the beginning.)

amother

Rainbow

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 6:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

I agree, the schools play a massive role in this issue. They can’t deal with a kid, so they require therapy for the child. A parent can’t deal with the kid, send to therapy. It’s like nobody but the therapists can help a child. Ridiculous.

The solution is to learn about what children really need in order to thrive and be resilient in the world. Giving them meaningful responsibilities, giving them a sense of belonging, fostering independence and learning from mistakes.

I have been a teacher for several years, have taught over 100 students. I have NEVER suggested to a parent to have a child evaluated or sent to therapy. My students did well in my classroom (even the naturally inattentive ones) because I understood them. I knew how to engage them and make them feel part of classroom community. My students felt liked and felt that they belonged, and they had motivation to succeed.

I had confidence that I can reach each student, and so I did.

I’m no therapist, and yet I’ve been able to help the struggling kids succeed.

Wow, I'm really not understanding this!!!

Personally, I agree overall that in today's generation, kids are overtherapized big time.

HOWEVER, not a single child? That really worries me. I have one child that from the time she was 2.5 I was told to evaluate her. I went crazy from it because the evaluations lead to lots of forms and no help. My next kid, who was night and day different from the first but also had extreme behaviors, I was NEVER told to evaluate. Not at 2, nor 3, nor 4, nor 5... I kept being told he'd grow out of his issues and look at him, he's doing better than he was in X area or Y area.

Once he hit elementary school, his problems were HUGE. Finally, someone told us to evaluate him! His wonderful Rebbe. We evaluated him. He has ASD. He is getting so much support in ways that I couldn't easily do at home.

I am so glad someone finally told me to evaluate the poor kid. There is a time and place for everything.

I am hoping you aren't the main teacher and you teach a subject. Or you teach older kids. Because there are kids that need to be evaluated and who need therapy and not advising the parents can be such a mistake.

Obviously, what happened with my son was meant to be, but I wish he would've been able to get early intervention including a gan for kids with ASD (smaller, higher staff ratio) instead of drowning with 35 kids, little staff and so much overstimulation.

amother

IndianRed

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 10:19 pm

amother Maize wrote:

As a mother, I sincerely hope that I would be able to pick up on something like this WITHOUT a therapists help. As a former child, I shared with my parents immediately if I ever felt uncomfortable by any man, including the time I was inappropriately touched by someone.

This really SHOULD NOT require a therapist to deal with it. And this is an example of outsourcing parenting to others.

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

It was by a close family member which is why I did not share, I was led to believe that I would ruin the family and make everyone hate me.

I exhibited lots behaviors that were indicative of a real issue but could easily be overlooked as just a phase. Like sleepwalking, wetting myself, lying, stealing, anxiety, ocd etc. Things that don’t necessarily have to mean anything but could also be trauma responses, which in my case they were

As a parent and former child, I sincerely hope if anyone’s children are being molested, they WOULD send their child to professionals as opposed to thinking they can “parent” their way through that situation

I know several girls who were molested, confided in their parents who dealt with it themselves. Those girls never worked through their issues or had a real outlet to overcome their trauma. They are all very messed up today

amother

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 10:34 pm

amother Outerspace wrote:

Okay.
How many years have you been teaching, how many kids on average spare in your class, and how old are you? Oh, and do you teach one subject (like 4 periods a week) or do you teach a half day?

I'm a teacher who has taught around 200 students (avg. 20 kids*10 years) and am in my mid-30s. I teach a half a day.

I am a very beloved that teacher and I have ABSOLUTELY recommended therapy. I am a middle elementary teacher.

What did you do for the absolutely defiant kid who would tantrum and scream?
What did you do for the child who sat under her desk and would fall asleep in class?
What did you do for the child who and so much anxiety that she couldn't learn and was constantly erasing her work?
What did you do for the child who was bullied?
What did you do for the bully?

Have you ever met those children? Every year or two I get a new briyah in my class. A child whose issues I have never encountered before.

And then my next question to you is this
How much do your students, as a whole, learn in your class if you are constantly playing therapist?

Wow so many questions.

First, I have taught for 5 years, average of 25 girls per class. I taught general studies, so all the English subjects to 4th grade.

You asked very specific questions about very specific scenarios. I want to say, first and foremost that I viewed and related to my students as whole people, who are good. This helped me to reach and connect with them in a caring and meaningful way, instead for viewing them and identifying them by their negative behavior and problem.

I had students who fit most of your descriptions, and yet I viewed my role to be the teacher- helping, guiding, and enabling them to learn and be successful in my classroom.

I had many students who were seeing the school psychologist, but it didn’t come from me.

I used A LOT of connecting, positive reinforcements/positive attention, and my students were motivated to behave. With some students in took some time for them to learn to trust me, but in the end they all did well (behaviorally) in my classroom.

I just don’t believe the solution to every negative behavior is therapy. That’s all.

There’s so much a parent and teacher can do to foster good behavior in any healthy child.

amother

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 10:36 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

What about a kid with aggressive and bullying behavior and outbursts. How would you help that kid? (Asking because she’s mine and school wants therapy)

I am not a professional, I think you should discuss this individual case with someone who is knowledgeable and experienced.

However, I do want to say that behind every behavior there is a message. Getting to the message, the root of the problem, is the best way to go about it. A therapist doesn’t ALWAYS have to be the one to do this.

amother

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 10:37 pm

amother Glitter wrote:

Thanks for sharing your perspective!

amother

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 10:44 pm

And then my next question to you is this
How much do your students, as a whole, learn in your class if you are constantly playing therapist?[/quote]

I’m not playing therapist ever. That would be inappropriate.

I did what I believe an effective teacher should do. First and foremast, create an environment where the students feel safe, where they can trust you (many ways to do this early on this year). Establish routines that are predictable, no surprises… and of course, making learning fun and engaging.

But more important than anything, I made sure I was relatable to my students. Gave them the feeling that I understand them. And I’m telling you, it reduced negative behaviors.

I had many students’ parents, and this is making me tear up writing about it, who told me this is the first year their daughter isn’t getting sent out of class or sent to the principal. Some years the Hebrew teacher told me she’s having issues with a certain student, and I was surprised because I didn’t see it in my classroom.

Again, my point is that there’s so much WE can do to help our children be successful.

We should daven that their teachers feel the same way.

And most importantly, that ultimately the results aren’t up to us. But Hashem wants us to do our part, and oftentimes it’s being confident in your ability to parent.

tweety1

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 10:45 pm

amother OP wrote:

I see this on here constantly and it’s been bothering me for a while. For every little issue a mother presents of her child, the immediate reaction is to get a professional involved and send child to therapy.

I feel like when people suggest this to other parents it’s essentially robbing parents of their confidence to deal with issues and ultimately absolving them of their responsibility.

Additionally, I truly believe that when children run the therapy route, it often ends up causing even more damage. Therapy can cause children to ruminate, which creates more problems and can further traumatize them. Addressing every little issue and talking about it often amplifies the issue.

Why can’t parents speak to their own children, toughen them up, and teach them real life skills.

I’m so tired of seeing this all the time. We’re creating weak and fragile kids when we give them the message that every negative behavior is problematic and needs intervention or medication.

I just want to add, I’m not referring to severe issues. Im talking about the typical ODD behavior, ADHD, depression and anxiety.

I think parents can do a better job in influencing healthy mindsets in their children if they had more confidence in their ability to parent, say no, and give appropriate consequences when necessary.

Op, I'm with you all the way! I have a son who's struggling in various areas. One mashgiach in yeshiva who is only in the field aprox 3 years dh is not on speaking terms. Why? Because this mashgiach is set in his mind that my son must get professional help and hes mad at dh that hes refusing to send my son for help. Problem is a different mashgiach in yeshiva who's in the field 10+ years is arguing the complete opposite. Do not send him to any help whatsoever. He claims his experience has taught him that most bucharim "professional" help makes them alot worse. Give him the right guidance, get him a great tutor who will also serve as his mentor and he will be fine. Dh is in contact with this mashgiach multiple times a week. You cant imagine the change we saw in our son by listening to this mashgiach.
Oh and if you're wondering what this other mashgiach says about my son these days? It's all his credit because he worked on my son. Oh yeah right. Who was my sons tutor? This experienced mashgiach. He has a heart of gold and saw potential in my son and decided he will help him.
I can go and on and write 2 pages long on my experience with "professional therapy"

amother

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 10:49 pm

amother Indigo wrote:

So if parents had confidence they could reach their child with ADHD, what should they do? If you have the answers you have a responsibility to the klal; there is so much suffering.

I agree there is so much suffering. It’s truly heartbreaking to see so many parents and children struggling and suffering.

Is therapy the solution to all that? Not always.

I just think we need to go back in time a little to when parents trusted themselves, kids were more independent, and a bit tougher.

I get upset when I see all this gentle parenting stuff pushed onto us to the point we feel trapped. It’s like if we don’t validate and sit with every emotion of our child we’ll destroy them. You know how exhausting that is for a parent?

And also, I don’t claim to have all the answers. Far from it. But I do think I have the answers to help my own children, because Hashem gave them to me. Of course, there are times I need to consult with wiser ppl, and I do that when I need to. And so should everyone.

But parents should feel empowered, not disempowered, which is what they’re all left feeling when they’re told the only solution is therapy.

amother

Glitter

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 10:53 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

First is always always rule out medical causes. Pandas, Lyme, parasites, mold, allergies, etc.

What else have you tried already?

amother

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 10:58 pm

amother Rainbow wrote:

Like I mentioned, I taught 4th grade. If a child had ASD, at that point it would’ve been recognized and properly dealt with. The school I worked for was very on top of every student and made sure they were on the right track. So this type of issue never came up.

However, I had many students who displayed ADHD symptoms and/or anxiety. I don’t think those need therapy, so I didn’t suggest it. And I did my best to help them be successful in my classroom, that was my job.

Again, there was a school psychologist and a handful of my students over the years went to her. I believe most were for issues such as home dysfunction, emotional neglect… and that was the school who pushed it. Not me.

If someone is being neglected at home, just having that extra attention of a therapist can do wonders, but it must be a therapist who knows what she’s doing. Because again, she can also exacerbate the issues by making the student focus on it too much.

amother

Outerspace

Sat, Jun 29 2024, 11:41 pm

amother OP wrote:

Hi again. I'm the teacher with tons of questions.

Idk, maybe your school is way more on top of situations than mine. (Mine is not.) One of my students definitely had ASD, she had so many of the symptoms, but it's the school's call to discuss things openly with the parents, not me. The parents were in denial and the school didn't want to push them. So the girl gets no OT, no social skills, no ABA... She just gets tutoring. (Which is not what she needs.)

Being an engaging teacher was not enough to help her, because it was above my pay grade.

Same with the girl whose tremendous anxiety got in the way of her learning. I can't cure that. I could be nice and understanding, but I can't get to her kishkas. That was for the parents to help with, which they did, with the help of various professionals and modalities.

It's not always enough to be a loving, caring, attuned, parent.

And one more thing. Many parents have (several) other children and don't have the energy and headspace to help all their children, so they outsource to therapy. Just like they may outsource shopping to delivery and cleaning to cleaning help.

Also, as was pointed out earlier by another poster, many children do not like working with their parents. The shoemaker's children go barefoot, and my children don't all know the subject matter that my students are fluent in... They don't want to work with me.

amother

DarkKhaki

Yesterday at 12:02 am

maestro wrote:

Can you please share what they said about screentime?

amother

Lemon

Yesterday at 12:51 am

amother Aquamarine wrote:

Children nowadays need more therapy because usually both parents work and school is just not effective enough to develop childrens skills. Children need individualized attention from parents or older siblings. This modern life is not good for human development.

Thank you! I say this all the time IRL and whenever I do, people just answer that it's not true, and that more kids are in therapy today only because we have more tools available to help them and we know how to identify more of their problems.

Does NO ONE else make the connection between today's crazy-pressured parents and so many struggling kids??

amother

Glitter

Yesterday at 1:09 am

amother Amethyst wrote:

Nothing medical, she has always been high strung.

Tried to give special time, tried to understand the root of her behavior, tried to give natural consequences

Just because she was always high strung doesn't mean it's not medical. For example, someone can get parasites at a very young age, allergies can develop at a very young age too. Does she have any physical symptoms like runny nose, post nasal drip, headaches, stomachaches, rashes, etc. I'm not saying your dd has anything, but it's good to be very sure before moving on.

Giving special time and the other things you mentioned are great tools. Have you tried anything like The Explosive Child? Or any parenting course/mentor? Sod haAdam? Any other books?

ora_43

Yesterday at 6:31 am

My dad used to say "never let a doctor see your heart or your brain."

Meaning, like, obviously if you're having a stroke, go to a doctor. But if you let a doctor do brain imaging on your healthy brain there will always be something that isn't quite average, and they're always going to want to do more testing.

He said it tongue in cheek but there's a lot of truth to it.

I think therapy is similar. If you're in distress, by all means, go to a therapist. If your kid is in distress, by all means, send them to therapy.

But if you let a social worker or therapist analyze your non-distressed child, there will always be something there they think a professional could fix.