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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
Yarrow
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 Fri, May 24 2024, 8:22 am
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Yes, please cut programming as well as the staff hired for said programming. My kids don't NEED it, it's an extra that I simply can't afford.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 4:37 pm
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Seriously, the only way the tuition crisis will be solved is if everyone had way less kids. But no one will ever say this. There, I said it.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 4:42 pm
| amother Sapphire wrote: | | Seriously, the only way the tuition crisis will be solved is if everyone had way less kids. But no one will ever say this. There, I said it. |
Did you ever hear of economies of scale? This might not work the way you think.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 4:48 pm
| amother Peach wrote: | | Did you ever hear of economies of scale? This might not work the way you think. |
But it may because people's salaries aren't dependent on the number or kids. That is one of the largest factor in the tuition crisis. Even with the economics of scale, salaries are still the priority factor in all this.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 4:50 pm
| amother Peach wrote: | | Did you ever hear of economies of scale? This might not work the way you think. |
The more kids a family has, the less likely they are able to pay full tuition. And a certain amount is needed to educate each child, so that’s necessary money not coming in to schools.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 4:52 pm
| amother Sapphire wrote: | | Seriously, the only way the tuition crisis will be solved is if everyone had way less kids. But no one will ever say this. There, I said it. |
Everyone always says this, but I don't know.
Think about it this way - in the frum communities that average two children per family, tuition is 15 to 20 thousand a year PER KID.
In my frum community which averages over eight children per family, tuition is a fraction of that.
It almost seems that every Frum family actually pays the same amount, no matter how many kids they have.
In a market economy, which is what we have in the US, the price is set at what the market will bear and it looks like the price settles at a pretty similar price no matter how many children you have.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 5:03 pm
| amother Petunia wrote: | Everyone always says this, but I don't know.
Think about it this way - in the frum communities that average two children per family, tuition is 15 to 20 thousand a year PER KID.
In my frum community which averages over eight children per family, tuition is a fraction of that.
It almost seems that every Frum family actually pays the same amount, no matter how many kids they have.
In a market economy, which is what we have in the US, the price is set at what the market will bear and it looks like the price settles at a pretty similar price no matter how many children you have. |
This is very high level and biased. You can't use averages for this rationale, because the average is not a good representation when people individually calculate their finances.
The cost is community dependent. If I have 2 children and live in a community with $25k costs, it will be reduced to $5k if I move to the other town. That will hold true regardless of what the average total tuition costs.
If people have smaller families in the town with lower costs, their tuition costs will be reduced, and the towns average will then be reduced too.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 5:05 pm
| amother Petunia wrote: | Everyone always says this, but I don't know.
Think about it this way - in the frum communities that average two children per family, tuition is 15 to 20 thousand a year PER KID.
In my frum community which averages over eight children per family, tuition is a fraction of that.
It almost seems that every Frum family actually pays the same amount, no matter how many kids they have.
In a market economy, which is what we have in the US, the price is set at what the market will bear and it looks like the price settles at a pretty similar price no matter how many children you have. |
You’re comparing two different school systems. The Teaneck schools you describe have many more extras, that’s why they charge that much. Lakewood schools don’t offer the same type of education. You get what you pay for.
But even so, the bottom line is that when parents can’t pay full tuition, the schools remain underfunded.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 5:09 pm
| amother Eggshell wrote: | This is very high level and biased. You can't use averages for this rationale, because the average is not a good representation when people individually calculate their finances.
The cost is community dependent. If I have 2 children and live in a community with $25k costs, it will be reduced to $5k if I move to the other town. That will hold true regardless of what the average total tuition costs.
If people have smaller families in the town with lower costs, their tuition costs will be reduced, and the towns average will then be reduced too. |
For the individual it will be reduced, but if we are talking about communities, we are definitely talking about averages.
Even if you think it SHOULDN'T be this way, facts are that it is. Communities with larger families have lower tuition costs. I wonder why?
I see it as a manifestation of the simple law of economics, how do YOU explain it?
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 5:10 pm
| amother Sapphire wrote: | You’re comparing two different school systems. The Teaneck schools you describe have many more extras, that’s why they charge that much. Lakewood schools don’t offer the same type of education. You get what you pay for.
But even so, the bottom line is that when parents can’t pay full tuition, the schools remain underfunded. |
I think that the model of expecting parents to shoulder the brunt of the budget is the broken piece here.
The schools of yesteryear were primarily community funded. Tuition covered a much smaller chunk of the pie.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 5:11 pm
| amother Sapphire wrote: | You’re comparing two different school systems. The Teaneck schools you describe have many more extras, that’s why they charge that much. Lakewood schools don’t offer the same type of education. You get what you pay for.
But even so, the bottom line is that when parents can’t pay full tuition, the schools remain underfunded. |
There's a reason why they are completely different school systems. IMO that's because in a community with large families, that's what the market will bear.
Even in Lakewood there are schools that are more expensive and have lots of bells and whistles, but they tend to have smaller families and/or be wealthier.
These are just basic rules of economics.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 5:11 pm
| amother Sapphire wrote: | | The more kids a family has, the less likely they are able to pay full tuition. And a certain amount is needed to educate each child, so that’s necessary money not coming in to schools. |
If there are 12 children in a class, they have to pay a teacher and for a classroom.
If there are 24 children in a class, they have to pay the same teacher and the same classroom, but divided among less people.
That's economies of scale. It's cheaper per person if there are more people in the system.
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 5:13 pm
| amother Peach wrote: | If there are 12 children in a class, they have to pay a teacher and for a classroom.
If there are 24 children in a class, they have to pay the same teacher and the same classroom, but divided among less people.
That's economies of scale. It's cheaper per person if there are more people in the system. |
It's also cheaper if they have less "bells and whistles".
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amother
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Fri, May 24 2024, 5:25 pm
| amother Peach wrote: | | But if all parents had 4, the asking amount would simply go up. |
Exactly.
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Jewishmofm
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Tue, Jun 25 2024, 8:41 pm
| amother Babyblue wrote: | | I only read the OP, so don't mind me if was already said: I think schools need to work together with the parent body. I'm sure there are electricians/ plumbers/accountants/ contractors and salesmen that have kids in the school. Have everyone contribute time, either in service or consultation at a fixed low price. Find speakers and people who do presentations in your own community - don't spend crazy money to bring someone in. These people live among us!! |
Talmudical Academy Baltimore used to have a program for anyone not paying full tuition. (They may still have it- it's been a while since we lived there) You got a tuition cut by signing up volunteer hours to the school. You had to work x amount of hours for every Y dollars of reduction or something similar.
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nylon
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Tue, Jun 25 2024, 8:50 pm
| amother Petunia wrote: | Everyone always says this, but I don't know.
Think about it this way - in the frum communities that average two children per family, tuition is 15 to 20 thousand a year PER KID.
In my frum community which averages over eight children per family, tuition is a fraction of that.
It almost seems that every Frum family actually pays the same amount, no matter how many kids they have.
In a market economy, which is what we have in the US, the price is set at what the market will bear and it looks like the price settles at a pretty similar price no matter how many children you have. |
Yes and no. The price in the MO schools is high because of other factors -- salaries and services. Because MO families (or enough of them) can afford that, tuition is high. Yeshivish and Chassidish families largely can't afford it, so their schools have to charge what they can pay, and provide accordingly. MO schools also provide more extensive financial aid, so it's harder to calculate what people are actually paying without detailed data from the schools.
There is a feedback loop, but it doesn't mean that the costs are directly connected to kids in the sense of economy of scale.
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amother
Daphne
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Tue, Jun 25 2024, 9:31 pm
Add July & August to the school year (with a 2 week summer break) & add two months of tuition.
Its win-win for everyone.
Teachers will get an extra 2 months of salary & will be working like an office job minus yomim tovim. Parents will pay tuition instead of camp.
Children will have continuity & wont lose the info they gleaned.
Schools will be able to charge more tuition & pay their employees better.
If its so important to have camp - incorporate it into the school program.
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amother
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Tue, Jun 25 2024, 9:37 pm
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What about the people who don't send to camp?
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