Tuition Breaks and Tomchei Shabbos

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Wed, May 15 2024, 10:33 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I’m just wondering how so many people who struggle to pay tuition are able to fund all their kids going to Yeshiva and seminary in Israel after high school…

Cheiny, I personally agree with u 100%. But people are influenced by pressure. As I wrote, we are imploding.
Somethings gotta give at some point.
Hashem yerachem.

amother

↑ Melon

Thu, May 16 2024, 12:23 am

Cheiny wrote:

I’m just wondering how so many people who struggle to pay tuition are able to fund all their kids going to Yeshiva and seminary in Israel after high school…

Our tuition scholarship application asks if we support anyone, have a kid in post HS seminary or yeshiva...
We don't. But they obviously take that into account in deciding what to give.

notshanarishona

Thu, May 16 2024, 2:15 am

Personally I like the way Neve does things, they understand that many girls can’t pay at that stage of life so they discuss with the girls that they have a moral obligation to pay as they can, and kids will use all their maaser/ tzedakah there over the next x amount of years till their tuition is paid off. Tuition is always going to be difficult when someone has all their kids in school. Once they graduate (unless one is paying for seminary/ college/ support, then most people find that finances get easier. I think if the school worked with parents over time people would leave the school system wanting to help.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Thu, May 16 2024, 3:36 am

notshanarishona wrote:

So Neve makes tuition free if the girl promises to give them.their Maaser monies till x amount is paid off...
So all of their tuition is a write off from maaser monies.

The Rabbonim pasken that only part of ones childs tuition can come from maaser.
This requires an individual shayla.
Regarding paying over time would be amazing if the schools would agree...they would have to sign prozbul etc.

amother

Forsythia

Thu, May 16 2024, 4:53 am

I am an Ex Director at a school. The schools,like parents,have budgets,and can’t afford to give out more than a certain amount in scholarship. As far as transparency,most MO schools publish their financials. I am not sure why yeshivisg schools don’t do this.
It’s a lose lose situation. Running a school is expensive,programming is required because otherwise kids won’t come and it’s unfortunately not realistic for schools to give everyone the aid they need. If the rabbanim in your community advocate that tuition is not a factor in family size,they need to be the ones fundraising for the schools

amother

↑ OP

Thu, May 16 2024, 5:20 am

Many kids I know acknowledge that seminary is a massive luxury. They work all through high school (tutoring, summer jobs at daycares rather than going to camp, Sunday etc) to cover the seminary costs that are not covered by FAFSA.
I admire that. These are teenagers who want something and work for it.

Are we now saying that yeshiva is a luxury that our teens need to be taking evening, Sunday and summer jobs to pay towards tuition?

amother

Lightcoral

Thu, May 16 2024, 5:43 am

I think schools should have a set amount for tuition. There should be breaks unless very extenuating circumstances. It should be understood that if you can't fulfill you to wish an obligation, you must fundraise for the difference. That way everybody will have the same obligation and some people wouldn't be paying more because others aren't paying at all. (Yes I'm paying full tuition. I pay about $50,000 for four kids)

It's very unfair that some people have to pay full full tuition with no breaks and other people choose not to work and get breaks. And I know plenty ppl like that.

Obviously these are for the reasonably priced schools. There are some schools that are very very very expensive and that can be dealt with differently.

amother

↑ Apple ↓

Thu, May 16 2024, 12:43 pm

amother Lightcoral wrote:

I love how simple it sounds, "just fundraise the difference."

Why don't you just say "get a better paying job"?

If fundraising was so easy, schools would do that instead of extorting tuition from parents. They wouldn't need to hire a professional fundraiser and make mega events and dinners to solicit.

Who, pray tell, am I supposed to fundraise from? I don't have wealthy relatives, neighbors, and friends. My well-meaning acquaintances can maybe give $18 from time to time. Is that $500 worth the shame for my family? Or do you suggest I go to a rich neighborhood and beg door to door?

If fundraising is easy for you, why don't you fundraise on top of your tuition? Make life easier for your children's classmates.

I'm happy to have the same obligation, as long as you're willing to wait. I don't mind paying for the next 30 years. But schools like having a fixed commitment, even if that's less. Which means I get breaks.

amother

↑ Apple

Thu, May 16 2024, 2:31 pm

My DD is going into 12th grade and there's a good chance we'll send her to seminary. 100% of her class goes every year, and it isn't more expensive than DS's yeshiva.

We'll have to apply for every form of aid and still pay late, but just as my kids' elementary school can complain that if I can't afford elementary tuition how dare I consider sending my kids to high school at triple the price, the high school can complain that I'm sending to sem at 150% the cost of high school.

I make a concerted effort not to make chinuch decisions based on money, but based on what's right for my kids. So far I got lucky that the high school we chose is cheaper, but I didn't even know that until later.

amother

Cyclamen ↓

Mon, May 20 2024, 6:53 am

I am on the financial aid committee at one of my kids schools and it is unbelievable how much lying and taking advantage happens. Reviewing the applications really takes a toll as the majority of families fall into one of two buckets 1) the ones who really cannot afford it and it is so hard to see how much they are struggling or 2) those who are taking advantage. Yes there are some families in the middle that are comfortable but just not able to pay full tuition. Honestly, I pay full tuition for all my kids (BH I am able to) but I live without a lot. We both work full time jobs, do not go on vacations, barely have cleaning help, manicures/pedicures are an occasional luxury, I even cut my husbands and sons hair myself and reviewing these applications in which people are asking for aid and have full time help, or the mothers take extended parental leaves (even though kids are in school), or are lying about their incomes/assets and then all of a sudden are able to buy huge houses with little mortgages or second homes, etc. It is so embarrassing for them and just shows where their priorities are because it sure is not making sure that their kids teachers get paid!!!

Also, we do ask for credit card and bank statements but only for the first year you are applying. I just glance through them to make sure that I don't see anything really glaringly obvious.

amother

↑ Cyclamen

Mon, May 20 2024, 6:58 am

Also, just to go back to the original question. I think that tuition is so different from Tomchei Shabbos in terms of funding which is why the process needs to be different. Many people who can afford to pay full just rationalize in their mind why they can't pay full and apply for aid (ie because it costs too much, because I have multiple kids in the school - newsflash, the schools cost per student does not go down if they are siblings, etc, etc). Also a school runs based on tuition but has set expenses that are contracted at the beginning of the year - so a salary or utilities need to be paid. Schools also don't have an unlimited donor base and most of that base is already tapped out paying their own tuition. Tomchei Shabbos has a much larger donor base, probably also gets government funding and can make adjustments to costs based on what funds they have available (ie send one less item that week, etc).

To compare the two is not apples to apples at all.

amother

Babyblue

Mon, May 20 2024, 7:11 am

My husband and I work our brains out around the clock to cover our bills including full tuition. We never go on vacation anywhere , do not go out to eat , drive simple cars etc. People we know do go on vacations , spend on designer handbags , etc and get tuition breaks …

Also, don’t throw rocks but I do not think it is fair for people to assume they get free / reduced tuition because they are in kollel. Many people would love to be in kollel but are working because they need to pay bills SUCH AS tuition. Then tuition keeps being raised for those who pay because people need breaks …Tuition is a service charge - you send you kids to school! Men who choose not to work and to learn instead need to figure out how to pay for their kids schools the same way they aren’t exempt from water bills , electricity, etc.

amother

NeonPink

Mon, May 20 2024, 7:12 am

amother OP wrote:

And what about people who don’t get fafsa? Not everyone qualifies.
Seminary isn’t a luxury. Girls have to go away from home and learn to live independently before getting married. And most parents who send to seminaries wouldn’t send to stern so don’t say that’s an option.

honey36

Mon, May 20 2024, 7:14 am

amother Apple wrote:

I don't understand this. Would they rather you send your child to a public high school just so they can get paid?

In fact I am confused about this whole thread for the same reason. Jewish education is a necessity, not a luxury. I actually do like the comparison with Tomchei Shabbos. Meaning, Jewish schooling should be a communal responsibility.

I'm fairly certain that is how it works in my (large OOT) community. To the person who said the Rav who is telling families not to factor tuition costs into their family planning so he should fundraise for the schools, yes he actually does that. I don't think he does large campaigns or whatever, but when the wealthier shul members ask where to give their Tzedakah to, he will tell them which schools need money etc.

The community needs to start working together to achieve this goal. Shul Rabbanim, Askanim, Baalei Tzedakah, school administrators all need to figure out a plan together to fix this problem.

No Jewish child should be turned down. I don't care what car the family drives or how many vacations they take. After 120, Hashem will judge them properly for all that, much more fairly than any tuition committee. In the meantime, yes, the community needs to step up to fill in the gaps.