Schools Enforcing a Rule in the Rulebook

amother

Outerspace ↓

Fri, May 03 2024, 2:16 pm

Their mistake is not enforcing it to begin with. If it’s in the book , it needs to be enforced. They need to tell everyone that they’ve been lax about it, but from now on, it’s going to be enforced. If the children are signing on it, how is it ok for them to break the rule even from a parent’s perspective?

amother

Mintcream

Fri, May 03 2024, 3:23 pm

No rule should be made unless enforced. There should be no "well everyone knows you really can" or subtle hints or "we say X but it really means practically that Y is ok". Be clear and concise. And no exceptions for those who are rich or Rabbi's sons or administrators grandchildren.
My kids school has uniform rules. Shoes are supposed to be specific colors. Except if your last name is on the building. You have to ask around the people "in the know" to find out what is really required. No guesswork.
Technically only school sweatshirt is allowed. Except no one wears them and you can wear any navy solid. I remember in my high school it was only our school's sweatshirt. But if you went to elementary school A you could wear their sweatshirt. But not elementary B or C. And definitely not a plain navy one that looks exactly like the school one besides for having zero logo (school had symbol. Mine was pure navy, no brand name or symbol or design).

amother

Oatmeal ↓

Fri, May 03 2024, 4:15 pm

amother Mintcream wrote:

I'd change that to - No rule should be made that is not enforceable. If a rule is outside the scope of school, or overstepping boundaries between home and school, then it is not enforceable and should not be implemented.

This mindset will eliminate many of the crazy school rules. We will then have a short list of rules that the kids can understand and more readily accept. That will then foster respect and adherence to the rules.

When you go too far, people ignore them all. Set them wisely and you have good outcomes.

amother

Gray ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 7:01 pm

UQT wrote:

Once a camp sent home that only a certain phone would be acceptable. I spent $150 on it to find out I was the only loser who did so. I called the camp director out on it and was told I should have understood from the rule that you could bring your other phone but it can’t be seen publicly. This way kids don’t bring it to activities and the camp is basically phone free except in the bunkhouses. Call me dumb but I totally didn’t get that memo.
Rule books should be gone through and whittled down to what is enforceable and important to the hanhalah. It also makes it easier on the parents to know what to enforce so it’s not like we’re guessing which rules no one follows.

I'm sorry but that's just nuts. I would have been so mad. What kind of whacko policy is that!

amother

Heather ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 7:23 pm

I know you aren't giving details, but is this abt bringing in a certain document?

My daughter's school has s/t now going on...& it happens to be that she's been begging since ninth grade for us to break this Rule and we have been very clear that we can't break it bec you never know if they would find out even though she insists that they never would. Then last week...oy.
But she's in a younger hs grade that it's not applicable to us, yet.

↑ UQT ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 7:51 pm

amother Heather wrote:

Yup and yup

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 7:54 pm

amother Heather wrote:

Yup.

zaq

Sat, May 04 2024, 8:09 pm

The school has a rule and they want to enforce it? What nerve! (Sarcasm alert.)

TLDR all the posts, but rules are pointless if they're not enforced. The students signed a document to the effect that they would abide by the school rules; that means they are expected to abide by all the rules, regardless of whether or not the school takes active measures to enforce them. That previous generations of students got a free pass because the rule was overlooked is neither here nor there. Non-enforcement in the past is a mistake the school is clearly trying to correct now.

Parents who oppose the school's enforcement of a rule that is on the books are giving their kids a harmful message, which is "You don't have to obey rules." Respect for authority is one of the pillars of a civilized society. If you tell your kids that they don't have to obey the school's rules, why should they obey yours or those of any other authority?

B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 8:21 pm

amother OP wrote:

Schools have rules in their books. Some related directly towards education and attendance.
Some about codes and behaviors and expectations of their students. (Im talking about students, not family).

Do the schools have a right to enforce the rules? Why or why not?
Can a school decide to take a harder line on a rule that they were previously lax on enforcing?

My child's school is starting to crack down on enforcing a rule that has been in the book, and the students (upper high school) sign on, and they remind the students and parents over the year.
But now, they're enforcing it and penalizing the rule breakers and I'm of two minds in this.

On the one hand, it's in the books, they were warned, and the school has a right to enforce the rules they want.

On the other hand, it's hard for the kids with possible long-term ramified, and the rule was ignored before.

I keeping it vague to protect privacy and so I can hear opinions.
It's about student standard not family standards.

I think you know the answer to this. If you had a stop sign on your corner but no one ever respected it and suddenly you get a ticket in the mail because they installed a camera and caught you going through the stop sign, would you protest and say - Hey you never enforced this before?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 8:28 pm

A certain school has a rule no permits until 12th grade Chanukah, no license until after graduation.
The girls sign that they will follow.
A few girls got their licenses.
The principal made every single 12th grader bring in their permit to confirm that they didn't get a license yet, committing to severe punishments for anyone who already got their license.
School is all abuzz

amother

Denim ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 8:51 pm

Until now any girl that got her license early was smart enough to keep it quiet. If girls openly start to flaunt it, they are practically asking the school to crack down hard or for rules to be irrelevant. It’s very simple.

My daughters never asked to get their license in violation of school rules but if they had, I would have strongly discouraged it and made them agree to keep quiet about it if I felt I had to let them get the license.

amother

Sand

Sat, May 04 2024, 8:56 pm

amother OP wrote:

I would call this a family standard, not a student standard. You can make a school rule about student not being allowed to drive cars to school/have access to a car during school hours. I'm not sure why they get a say if a parent feels that they want their 12th grader to be able to drive on Sundays.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Sat, May 04 2024, 9:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

Even if you dont agree with the rule, once the girl signs, she is committed. Its poor chinuch to do otherwise.
If you have a problem wth the rule, talk to the principal.
I think its OK to tell your dtr you feel for her but rules are rules...

amother

↑ Heather ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 9:17 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

That's what I tell her.
I think the rule is stupid. And I'd love to hv another driver, sooner. But we follow the rules best we can...

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 9:41 pm

amother Sand wrote:

I'm not weighing in whether the rule is stupid or not or whether the school has a right.
The rule IS clearly delineated.

I call it a student rule as opposed to a family rule because it's not restricting the family behavior. There is no rule about parents driving or getting licenses, just the student.
Therefore it's a student rule not a family rule

↑ dena613 ↓

Sat, May 04 2024, 9:45 pm

amother OP wrote:

Yes it's a student rule. Many BY have rules about when their students may have licenses.

I don't know what the severe punishment is, but it sounds like a rule they should have cracked down on a long time ago.

Maybe minor punishment this year because its not fair to crack down so hard on something you've been ignoring, with warning to eleventh grade that next year the punishment will be much worse. Tell them what it will be.

What's the punishment?

Tao

Sat, May 04 2024, 10:03 pm

UQT wrote:

My daughter is in that school. All year she was begging me to break the rule but I stood strong. Now she’s thankful! But it’s tricky bec there are some rules in the book that the entire school violates, everyone knows and no one blinks.
But I do think parents knew to start this is an ironclad rule. Some people break it every year and get away with it. But I knew if the school found out we broke it they would be livid.

Totally hear this because we're in the same boat. We wouldn't "get away" with things that for other families a blind eye is turned. That being said, I am a strong believer that if you choose to send your child to a mosad, you respect and follow the rules, even if you don't like or agree with them. No-one forced your kid to go there, and if you're there it is your duty as a parent to show the school respect. There's a certain rule my kids' school has and I'm pretty sure (based on what I've heard and seen from so so many people) that we are among the handful that actually keep it. But to me it's unthinkable to send your child to a school and blatantly disrespect its rules, while on premises!

ETA: Btw, I believe this ONLY in regard to official rules that are supposed to be kept by everyone as part of the school's policies - NOT unofficial "rules" I.e pressure that a school decides they want to put on only certain families.....

amother

↑ Denim ↓

Sun, May 05 2024, 1:46 am

Tao wrote:

This has nothing to do with certain families. This school treats all girls equally. Some girls get away with it by doing it quietly but every girl knows the school is makpid on this rule. Whether they have punished in prior years is irrelevant. There was no wink wink. Each girl personally signed and committed that she would not get a license before graduation. To violate one’s signed commitment and then have taanos on the school for giving consequences is disingenuous.